Author Archive for: Amanda

00:05 Amanda Hammett: Hey, this is Amanda Hammett, and this is the Millennial Rockstars podcast.

00:09 AH: Alright, so today's rockstar is Forest Shoults. Forest works for a company called EJ, which is a family-owned company that you probably have never heard of, but you definitely have benefited from their products, because they create those manhole covers that are so important in city infrastructure, along with a bunch of other things that you definitely need when building a city. So as I mentioned, EJ is a family-owned company, and Forest actually shares with us a pretty funny story about when he was initially interviewing for his job at EJ and how that family culture that they have permeates through all of their employees and was very pivotal to him taking that role. So tune in and check out what Forest has to share.

00:54 AH: Hey there, and welcome to this episode of the Millennial Rockstars podcast. Today, we have a very special and young rockstar. We have Forest Shoults. Forest, welcome to the show.

01:06 Forest Shoults: Howdy.

01:08 AH: So Forest, you were nominated. I actually spoke at a conference in Houston, and you were nominated by one of the attendees that I was speaking to from your company. And he was like, "Oh my gosh, I have the perfect person that you need to speak with," and of course, that was you. So tell us a little bit about you, Forest.

01:27 FS: Oh man. Well, man, I am young. I guess you could say as far as in my workplace, I think I am the youngest that I've met so far within the company. We went to a sales meeting back in February, and at the time I was 25, and there was a 10-year margin between me and everyone else, so I was like, "Oh my gosh. What have I gotten into? Much older people around me." But no, I guess a little bit on the personal side, I'm 26 years old now. I was born in Texas, in East Texas, and since then, I have moved I think 13 different times.

02:12 AH: Oh wow!

02:13 FS: So I've lived in multiple different states. I've actually lived in Mexico. When I graduated high school, my dad got the call to go to Mexico to be a missionary, and I had a choice to make whether I was gonna go to college immediately after high school, or whether I was gonna go to Mexico and maybe take a year off to do some non-profit work down there, so I decided to take the plunge and moved to Mexico. I didn't speak any Spanish at all. I walked in there like a clueless gringo. But [chuckle] it worked out. Luckily when we got down there, we were able to connect with some teachers that ended up teaching us Spanish from the most basic kindergarten level Spanish, so I learned Spanish. I got to work with some of the most impoverished people that probably in the world while I was down there. We worked in doing water filtration systems for them down there.

03:18 AH: Oh wow.

03:19 FS: Believe it or not, I actually traveled with a mariachi group in Mexico 'cause I'm a singer, so that was something I did on the side. [chuckle] Not a lot of people pick that up whenever [laughter] I tell them.

03:37 AH: I did not see that on your LinkedIn profile.

03:39 FS: No.

[laughter]

03:40 FS: Yeah. So I was going, "Hey, no profiling. Listen, everybody can do it." But no, so I had a lot of fun while I was in Mexico. Had a lot of adventures while I was down there. It really opened me up as a person. I was, believe it or not, I was much more of a, I guess you could say introverted person, but going to Mexico kind of opened me up, and to the adventure of life, and so I really enjoyed it.

04:05 AH: That's awesome.

04:05 FS: So I kinda made a commitment to myself. I spent a year down there, and then came back to Dallas to go to school, and actually went to music school when I arrived back in Dallas, 'cause I wanted to be a music minister in church, which I have been to this day. I'm a worship pastor and I'm also a youth pastor as well. So I went there then I ended up going to Dallas Baptist University where I got my bachelor's degree in Business Administration, and I kinda cheated because I got a minor in Spanish, even though I already speak fluent Spanish. I just loved it, I wanted to go back through it again. And I worked for Apple for five years while I was in school, which was awesome, 'cause they paid for my tuition, and I got to meet a lot of really cool musicians. The guy that actually produced the song that I wrote, which you should go check out. It's on iTunes and Spotify. It's called "I Love You Back."

04:57 AH: I what?

05:00 FS: It's called, "I love you back."

05:01 AH: Okay. Alright, we'll put a link to that in the show notes for you.

05:04 FS: Awesome, awesome, thank you. I went down and I recorded it in Brazil actually, in Portuguese, and I also have a version of it in Spanish as well.

05:15 AH: Well, aren't you just a surprise.

05:19 FS: Oh man, it has been an adventure. It was fun. That was fun. It was a long process, but after I graduated school, I needed to find a job 'cause music doesn't exactly pay the best. And it can.

05:35 AH: It can.

05:36 FS: Who knows, someday I might break out, and I don't know, become a singer full-time, but for now, I got a job with a company called EJ, East Jordan Iron Works is the name of the company, and believe it or not, they've been in business for 135 years.

05:54 AH: Yes. They've been around for a little while.

05:56 FS: Yes, they know what they're doing.

05:58 AH: They do.

05:58 FS: They've been around, yeah. That's one of the things that kinda attracted me to the company, is that, how in the world could it still be running and family-owned after that long? They must be doing something right. So anyhow, so I came to work for this company and presently, I hold an outside sales representative role, where I cover all the territory from Dallas, Fort Worth, down to the Waco area, out into New Mexico. So I get to see a lot of asphalts, a lot of adventures out there on the road, but I love what I do.

06:36 AH: That's awesome. Sounds awesome.

06:37 FS: That's me, that's me in a nutshell.

06:40 AH: Forest, for those in the audience that don't know what EJ does and sells, can you tell them a little about... Just real quick, what they do or sell.

06:48 FS: Yeah, so East Jordan Iron Works initially, they started out in East Jordan, Michigan. And they cast manhole rings and covers, and as time went on, they kind of developed into... They had a broader range of castings, that they did. So they do valve boxes, valve box covers, they do fire hydrants and valves. So a lot of your infrastructure that you see that goes in before people come in and put houses in, we build a lot of that infrastructure that goes under it. So EJ actually went from being just an American company to... They're now worldwide. So they're all over the world providing infrastructure. And one thing is people are always gonna need sewer, they're always gonna need water.

07:47 AH: Absolutely, I don't think that that's going away any time soon. [laughter] Absolutely.

07:52 FS: Yeah. Lot of job stability in this business.

[laughter]

07:55 AH: Yes, very good, very good. So I know that you mentioned earlier that you've only been out of college and with EJ, for what? Two years? Is that what you said, almost two years?

08:05 FS: Yes, yes, yeah, I graduated in 2016.

08:09 AH: Okay, so, but despite that, you did have five years of work experience at Apple before you graduated from college, which... That was, I'm sure, fantastic experience. So I'm sure at this point you've discovered there are probably some things that have worked for you so far in your career. Can you tell us about one of those things that's worked for you?

08:31 FS: Yes. When I was working at Apple, it was always like this... There were two different types of people that I worked with there. And there were those that saw the position as kind of being like a monotonous, "Oh, I come in every day and I'm the guy that fixes phones and gets yelled at." And then there is the other type, that comes in and it's like, "Dang, you don't know who you're going to meet today or what's gonna happen." This guy came in one time with a computer and it had a bullet hole in it, and somebody had shot a hole through it. And I'm like, "What? Can you explain that? How did that happen?" So...

09:15 AH: I don't think that's gonna get the warranty.

09:17 FS: No, no, it was not covered under the warranty. Now, there was the one that had... There was a snake inside of a computer once. It was dead.

09:28 AH: I don't need to hear that.

09:30 FS: Yeah. That one wasn't covered either. But I think that one thing that's really helped me in my career has been to see every day as an adventure and a learning opportunity. And it's taken away from what could become a monotonous, job situation, which ultimately can become really toxic. A lot of my millennial friends fall into that mistake. And I don't wanna speak too soon about this unless you're gonna ask a question later on about this, but I was actually just mentoring a guy who's close to me, who is working kind of a job that's not really one that you would be... It's valet job and he's like, "Man, I don't have any experience and trying to get into this next position." And I told him, I was like, "Man. Every job that you could have is a gateway to another job at some point." It's a learning opportunity and it's all about how you perceive your job, and how you're gaining experience, and how you perceive what you're learning about your job. 'Cause you're gonna interact with people and that's one of the most crucial aspects of getting a job and developing in a job, anywhere.

10:44 AH: Absolutely.

10:46 FS: So that's one thing that's really worked well for me.

10:48 AH: That's really good. I think that that's a really good outlook to see on things, because you're right, every job has its times where it's a little, can be a little monotonous. And you wonder, What is this really... What is this really doing for me? But to look at it as a learning opportunity, absolutely. When I go and look at my career, I'm a little further down the career path than you are, but when I go back and I look at all of my experiences from day one to today, it's been amazing to see the past three, four, five years, how everything from the first day, has kind of magically collided into this career I now have. So it is what it is, it's a learning experience, it's a great way to look at it. Alright, so with that, having that learning experience, I would imagine that you've also discovered a few things that have not worked for you.

11:41 FS: Oh yeah.

11:42 AH: So to tell us just one of those.

11:45 FS: Okay, so on the same note of what we just talked about.

11:49 AH: Okay. [chuckle]

11:50 FS: Is the flip side. I think that there is a subjective monotony and I think there is an objective monotony.

11:57 AH: Okay.

11:58 FS: I think there's certain types of people that just don't fit in a particular job, because it's... Like I could not be an accountant. That's just, there's no way, and nothing against accountants out there. Honestly, we need you guys, the world would not turn without accountants. But I could not be an accountant. What makes me tick is being able to get up every morning, and I get to go meet new people every day, or I get to see people that I've known, I get to catch up on what's going on. And that could seem daunting to some people. Some people are like, "Wow. You go and you meet new people every single day, and you have to go in and you have to get products specified, and you have to go work deals out and show some prices, and that's kind of intimidating."

12:48 FS: For me, it's an adventure, and I love that stuff. But for me, it's really hard for me to be confined to like a desk and be sitting down, and just answering emails and answering phone calls. So the challenge for me is there is a subjective monotony. I could probably find some sort of adventure out of that, 'cause I had to do that for six to seven months beforehand, and I'll talk about that in a little bit. I don't wanna throw that out of the gun. One thing that I've talked to a lot of millennials about that I mentor, 'cause there's actually a couple of them that I mentor at this point, coming out of college and getting a job, is sometimes you have to suffer the monotony in order to move to the next step.

13:38 AH: Yes.

13:40 FS: It's tough, but you're not gonna get your dream job out of a box. It doesn't happen all the time. Sometimes it can happen, sometimes people get it.

13:50 AH: That's the exception though, it's not the rule.

13:53 FS: Very much so, very much so. Or you could be like my girlfriend who, she's a photographer, and she's very successful now, but it didn't happen overnight. And she works for herself. She had to build her business, she had to build her brand, and it's taken her about a year but now she's got it rolling. But it took a lot of sacrifice. And in my case, I had to go up and live in Oklahoma for six to seven months, in a place I didn't know, with people that I didn't know, and to be honest with you, it wasn't my favorite place to live. There wasn't really anything to do, there was no nightlife, there was no...

14:35 AH: There was no mariachi band to travel with.

14:37 FS: Exactly. There weren't any Spanish speaking people there. I felt away from home. So the challenge for me was balancing that okay, I gotta make this sacrifice to come up here and do this, but with the next step in mind, so thinking like this is just a stepping stone to where I wanna be. Ultimately, this is what I wanna do.

15:03 AH: That's good...

15:04 FS: I just had to, keeping that perspective.

15:06 AH: I like that. I like that you kept that objective in mind, "This is what I have to do now to get to where I want to be." So, how did you recognize that... Okay, you were asked to move to Oklahoma and be there for... How long were you there?

15:22 FS: I was there for eight months.

15:24 AH: Okay, so you were moved to Oklahoma for eight months. You didn't love it, but you did it every single day, and you proved to the higher ups or whoever you had to prove yourself to, that you could make it, and then eventually come home, or come back to Texas anyway?

15:41 FS: Yes.

15:42 AH: Absolutely.

15:46 FS: It was a challenge, it was a challenge. And I wanna add this, I know this is probably not important, in my interview, heading up there to take the position, my car broke down, like 15 minutes away from the interview, like my car committed suicide completely on my way up there. And so I was like, "Is this a sign?" [chuckle] I'm like, "Is this the right thing to do?" But it was. And one of the things that I know is my boss actually came and he picked me up there, and he took me back to the interview, he's like, "Don't worry about it, it's not a problem."

16:17 AH: I need a clarification point here. So you called in before your interview?

16:23 FS: Yes.

16:25 AH: You're unemployed at this point, correct?

16:27 FS: Unemployed, yes. Not an employee.

16:29 AH: And you called him and you say, "Hey, I'm on my way, but my car broke down." How far were you from the office?

16:35 FS: I was probably about 15 minutes away. It wasn't too far down the road but...

16:41 AH: And they came and got you?

16:44 FS: Yes, they did, they did. I was thinking in my mind like, "Well, this is a likely story. He's 15 minutes late for the interview, says it's broken down, of course he is."

16:54 AH: Did he offer or did you ask him to go? I'm just very curious how this came about.

17:00 FS: I didn't ask him. They said, "Hey... " It was actually the branch manager, it wasn't even the lady who was interviewing me at first. The branch manager himself came and picked me up at my car.

17:11 AH: That's amazing, that is not a usual circumstance, I will say that.

17:17 FS: Yeah, no. Lucky me.

[chuckle]

17:19 AH: Alright, so we talked a little bit about you've encountered some stumbling blocks along the way, besides your car, and you've managed to get through those stumbling blocks. But when you're thinking about Forest, who had not worked really a day in his life yet, when you think about the ideas that you had in your head about the workplace, what a career was like, what the working world was like, how is that different from what you're facing now? Or how did those views change? Did you have any reality checks that were like, "Oh yeah, this is not what I was expecting"? Tell us.

18:00 FS: I think my perception of my ability to be able to do the job that I have was not... I didn't have the level of confidence that I could do the job that I have now that I can do the job, now that I'm in it. Does that make sense?

18:16 AH: It does.

18:17 FS: Like beforehand I kind of saw the sales manager position would be really daunting, but rather I think people, especially millennials, underestimate themselves substantially and the abilities that they have. And that kinda goes back to, I think, a perception of your experience with people. Before I didn't see myself as a very social person, but you don't have to be a super extrovert or extremely social person to be successful necessarily. You just have to be... Here's a quote that I can live by and it's really enhanced my work, is, and I don't know the name of the guy. You can maybe look up later "There is no such thing as an interesting person or thing. There only exists an uninterested person."

19:26 AH: Really? I've never heard that. I will look that up though. That's very good.

19:31 FS: It's awesome. It really changes your perspective. It's caused me to on a daily basis, not necessarily see myself as having to be fully the best person that could be in a job at that very moment, but always being in a state of, "How can I learn how? How can I soak up knowledge? How can I improve myself in the position that I'm at now?" and then ultimately be able to pass that on to the next person that may be coming in next. So for me, it's understanding, "Hey, I may not have all the answers, but I can definitely find out and I can definitely learn to the best of my ability. And I think that's one of the biggest things that employers wanna know, is that you are the type of person that's gonna be like a sponge and you're gonna be soaking up and actually learning and not just a conduit for stuff to pass through.

20:33 AH: Absolutely, I would agree with that wholeheartedly. So, tell us a little bit about... You mentioned already the branch manager at EJ right now in the whole interview debacle, but is there anything that your company has in its culture, or in your specific office that is a perk or a benefit or just part of the culture that really keeps you engaged than wanting to do a good job?

21:05 FS: There's a lot at my job that really creates almost like a family environment within the team.

21:13 AH: Okay.

21:14 FS: And I know a lot of companies are scared like, "Okay, we can't get too close, because if we're like a family, then it might be a conflict of interest." What's really cool about my team is that we're not on an individual commission basis, it's a team commission basis. And...

21:34 AH: Interesting.

21:35 FS: We're broken up into different territories, so I cover South Dallas down to Waco out to New Mexico; two of the other salesmen cover the northern part, and we have a technical salesman who helps all of us out whenever we need to go into engineering firms and present for civil engineering firms or present to city engineers or city managers. So we all just work together, as a team, and it just flows. There's no competition between any of us on the team. We talk on a regular basis and we share what's going on. It's one of those things that I feel when I worked at Apple... Well, it wasn't necessarily Apple. I just think it's a millennial thing, that we like to text a lot more, and I'm okay with that. That's a great fast way to communicate. But one thing that I have learned, is the art of having a good phone conversation with these guys, and they're all 20 years older than me. Everybody on my team is, and I'm not kidding, is 20 years older than me. And they know how to have good phone conversations.

22:52 FS: And so I think a lot of people that I know nowadays are kinda like, "Why don't you just text me? Why do you have to call me?" It is a lot of value that happens in having a good phone conversation. So we stay very well connected; that's a perk I think I have, is I feel like I have so much trust built up between my team because we talk on a regular basis, and it's so light-hearted, there's no pressure like, "What have you been doing today?" like, "You've been accomplishing something? You probably sleep... You're a salesman, you probably slept in the day 'til 11 today." That's a perk I think for me. Another perk is we get tuition reimbursement which is awesome. They provide us with a truck, a brand new one every year, obviously it belongs to the company but we get to drive it around. They pay for your gas, pay for your food. So as far as the being taken care of as an employee, I feel like it's a great, great position to be in.

24:00 AH: That's awesome.

24:02 FS: Yeah. Yeah.

24:02 AH: That's awesome. I can definitely tell that there is definitely a spin towards family, just from just the story about the interview and the branch manager coming to get you. I was trying to think when you were telling that story, I had a similar situation happen on my way to an interview when I was young, fresh out of college, and it was not the same end results, let's just say that. [laughter]

24:33 FS: Wow.

24:34 AH: So I called as well, but it was just like, "Alright, well, too bad."

24:40 FS: Sorry. Dang. Their loss, right? Their loss.

24:42 AH: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So it just wasn't meant to be, but I think that that's a really good and positive thing for you. And it seems like the older sales reps are also maybe pouring into you a little bit as far as helping and teaching and guiding because they obviously probably have a little bit more sales experience than you do.

25:02 FS: Oh, and wealth. Some of these guys have been in sales... And just to put some of this into perspective for you, when I say a wealth of knowledge, some of these guys have been working in the same position for... When I say same position, were working for the company for 30 years, 40 years.

25:19 AH: Yeah.

25:20 FS: And that's longer than I've been alive.

25:23 AH: Yes it is. Yes it is.

25:27 FS: Man, I tell them all the time, I'm like, "Man, you know I was not born yet whenever you started working."

25:33 AH: Alright, don't rub it in now. [chuckle] Come on.

25:35 FS: But I respect the knowledge a lot, and that's one of the things... I would say this to millennials, my fellow millennials, whenever you get into a position, don't expect them to always have everything laid out for you. 'Cause I came from Apple where I was a spoiled kid. Apple literally has the best training programs in the world. They will train you so well to do what you need to do. And that's not to say EJ didn't necessarily do that, EJ just does it differently.

26:12 FS: When I came into the position, this is hilarious, so when I came into the inside sales position, I walked in and I was so excited, I was like, "My first day at work." And the office manager said, "Well, there's your desk." And I was like, "That's my desk, okay. What do I do?" And she's like, "Well, you pick up the phone when people call and you write quotes." It wasn't that bland, she helped me, but I kinda felt that way when I first got there, I was like, "Where's my... " When I got to Apple, they took us away from the store to this nice hotel, and they had this very skilled trainer who came, then we did shadowing, reverse-shadowing, and they taught us all these steps of service, and it was very well polished.

27:05 FS: So I got to EJ and I was like, "Man, I'm gonna have to put together just a list of questions and figure out from the people around me, what I need to accomplish, and I need to set goals because I thought to myself, "This is no high school job. This is a big boy job, so I'm gonna have to step up to the plate and probably ask some questions to get trained on how to do this position." So that's exactly what I did and what I realized was, the team around me was super ready to jump in and give me help and advise me, and give advice, and that's how I learned so much, oh my goodness. So, here I am now.

27:57 AH: That's great, that's good to know, good to learn. Okay, so tell us a little bit about this. When you were looking to get your job at EJ, what was it that made you stand out, what was it that made them willing to drive 15 minutes to pick you up when your car broke down before the interview?

28:20 FS: Oh man. I think that... I do speak Spanish. And there is a large customer base that they have... An increasing customer base that needs a Spanish speaker. So that was one thing that really stood out was I'm very multicultural. I can relate to a lot of people, I have been in multiple different countries, and so they really liked the fact that I get along very easily with a very broad range of people. It's just something that comes naturally, and that kinda stemmed from being an Apple as well. When I worked at Apple...

29:00 AH: Oh yeah.

29:00 FS: I helped the President of Mexico, the ex-president Mexico once, Felipe Calderon...

29:04 AH: Really?

29:05 FS: I was like, "Why are you here, without bigger security detail?" [chuckle] But I was glad to help him out myself. But anyhow, I was exposed to a lot of different types of people. And another thing that really stood out that they liked at the position I was at is that I was able to handle escalated situations. Apple actually trains their employees very in-depth. It's like deep psychological stuff. I can say that now that I don't work for them. But they teach you what's called the Apple Steps of Service.

29:45 FS: Alright, I'm gonna try and get this. So, it's, Approach with a warm welcome, that's the A. Probe which is ask questions, position a solution. Listen, and end with a fond farewell. So that was the sales side that I learned, which just literally ingrained this sales process into me. But they had another one that was the three A's which is acknowledge, align, and assure. If you have an angry customer that comes and they're like, "Ah! My phone!" They throw it down. And you say, "Well, yep, that's a broke phone. That looks really bad. Man, I hate to see that your phone broke." And they say, "Yes, and I had these pictures of my wedding that my brother filmed with my iPhone." In the back of your mind you're probably thinking, "Why did you film your wedding with your iPhone and not save this stuff?"

30:47 AH: But you don't say that.

30:49 FS: No, you don't. That's part of the training. You align with the customer, "Man, that iPhone needs to be fixed. We gotta figure out everything we can do." That's part of the assure, you assure them. I think that one of the things that my boss was reassured of was the fact that I had a really extensive history of dealing with really escalated situations and repairing... Kind of my deal at Apple was I was repairing relationships with customers and turning them from demoters into promoters of the company. It was just kind of a mindset that I had whenever dealing with the company's customers. So that was attractive to them. And the fact that I graduated with a business administration degree, I have a focus on marketing was also... I feel like it was attractive to them though, not as important as the other things.

31:47 AH: Right, absolutely. Especially doing what you do, I think it's important to have that skill of being able to assure people and understand where they're coming from. 'Cause city planners, bless them, not always the easiest people to deal with, and they shouldn't be, they should not be.

32:04 FS: No. They can be very moody sometimes. You gotta be careful. [chuckle]

32:09 AH: A lot of things riding on their shoulders. A lot of things are riding on their shoulders so I get it, I get it. Is there anything that you wish companies knew about hiring younger employees? Is there anything you wish that they would do better?

32:26 FS: I wish that companies would dig deeper into searching for more meaningful leadership experiences that millennials have had.

32:36 AH: Give me an example.

32:40 FS: For example, I think that a lot of companies base salaries and pay based off of your... Maybe not as many nowadays but I've seen a couple and I have friends that have had a couple that they get based their pay based off of their education. That's what is their ticket to getting in the door to certain places. Rather than a company taking time to really ask specific honed questions related to leadership experiences and areas where this person might be a champion leader that could be a huge asset to the team that they have. I'll give you an example. There's a guy that I work with that is one of the top salesmen in a global... This company's a global company. And he's one of the top salesmen. The guy never graduated college. And he actually started working in the foundry in one of the finishing crew grinding the castings.

33:42 AH: Really?

33:43 FS: He is one of the greatest people persons that I know as far as relating with customers and generating new sales, being able to get specifications with cities, phenomenal guy. His name is Larry Stinson, I gotta give him a shout-out. He's the guy that's trained me to do what I do. The guy never got a bachelor's degree. Actually, part of the requirements for my job, not knocking EJ at all, I love them, they did a great job, is that you have a bachelor's degree but they made an exception for him. Thank goodness that they did because he's one of the best in the company.

34:23 AH: Alright. I like that, I can get behind that. I can stand behind that. I think that's awesome. Especially now that college is expensive to get through.

34:34 FS: Exactly. I think that's definitely increasingly a problem. I talk to a lot of people nowadays that are... Some very intelligent people. My girlfriend, for example, I'll give you an example with her. She's very smart, but she just didn't have the money to pay for the school that she was going to. So she just decided to start her own business. Now she's making almost as much money as I have or as I'm making right now doing her own thing. I don't know.

35:09 AH: Yeah, I get it, I get it. I also mentor a lot of millennials, younger millennials, and I have one young lady that I've mentored for I don't know, maybe five years now off and on. And she is getting her bachelor's degree because her family thinks that education is very important, but she's paying for everything herself, and it's taken her seven years. She works full time and goes to school full time, but she pays. She's taken no loans, no nothing. She's paid every penny. That's a lot, that's a lot. Anyway, alright, well Forest, this has been fantastic and I think that we've learned a lot of really interesting things, not just about you, but about Apple and about EJ and their family philosophy on the workplace, which is really kinda cool. It's very cool actually, but thank you so much for being on the show. Is it okay if anybody from our audience wants to reach out to you on LinkedIn?

36:11 FS: Certainly, yeah. Feel free to reach out if you have any questions, or you have any questions about EJ, or you just need advice. I'm here.

36:21 AH: You're here? Alright, cool. So I'm gonna include a link to your LinkedIn profile in the show notes, but I will also include a link to your song, "I love you back" on iTunes and Spotify. I'll include that as well, but again, thank you so much for being on the show and thank you for tuning in.

36:38 FS: Awesome.

36:39 AH: Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Millennial Rockstars podcast. If you are looking for even more information on millennials and some free resources, visit my website at amandahammett.com. The link is below. It's amandahammett.com. There you can download a free millennial employee engagement guide that will give you all kinds of tips and tricks on how to keep those millennials engaged on a day-to-day basis because we all know that millennials who are happy at work, are more productive at work.

Hey, this is Amanda Hammett and this is the millennial Rockstar podcast.

Amanda Hammett: All right. In today's episode of the millennial rockstars podcast, I got to interview Katie Kirschner, who is with NCR Corporation now. Katie has a. She is just a dynamo of energy and you're going to see that in the interview for sure, but she walks us through her career, which although she's only 32 years old, she has a wealth of experience from corporations all over the world and she's bringing everything she's ever learned right into NCR here in Atlanta, but I think one of the biggest takeaways that I walked away with after this interview was when she talked about the best manager she ever had and how that manager actually empowered her and gave her a voice. So tune in and tell me what you think.

Amanda Hammett: Hey, this is Amanda Hammett. I'm known as the millennial translator because I help companies attract, retain, and engage top millennial talent. And speaking of top millennial talent, I have Katie Kirschner with NCR. Hey Katie. How are Ya?

Katie Kirschner: How's it going?

Amanda Hammett: Well, I'm so excited to have you on. I reached out while back to NCR to one of my contacts there, Christine Bell, nab, and she's like, oh my gosh, I have some one for you to get her coffee, a starbucks gift card for. Fantastic. Fantastic. So Katie, why don't you tell the audience a little bit about you?

Katie Kirschner: Um, sure. So, um, I'll tell you a little bit about where I am right now and then I'll talk about how I got there. So, um, I work for NCR Corporation. Um, if anyone is in Atlanta or if you've seen pictures, we have this massive beautiful glass building right off of the main highway that goes through Atlanta. Um, which I'm super excited about. Not just the building but the company itself. So I've been with the company for a little over a year. It's dynamic in nature. So I've actually changed my role already being in the company that I currently lead, brand and marketing shared services, which is basically brand strategy and governance, industry analyst relations, market insights and business intelligence, consumer and buyer persona development and journey mapping and creative services and marketing agency management. So it's quite an eclectic group,

Amanda Hammett: A very collective group.

Katie Kirschner: Funny about that is I'm not just that this role was kind of created within a certain framework that our marketing leader wanted, but also how it fits in with my background and why am I able to kind of navigate and do this very eclectic set of work. So rewind a couple years back because I'm not that old, but I actually started in the restaurant industry and I worked there for about 10 years and I will say I learned so much learning in that industry. I would highly recommend anyone who hasn't worked in the service industry to do so. Um, it's anything from multitasking to dealing with difficult people. People are different when they're hangry. I think we all know that, yes they are. And not only that, but the dynamics of the different age groups that you work with in the restaurant industry. You have career restaurant tours who are there until well into their sixties to teenagers who are just coming out of high school and they're being hostesses. Right? So I learned quite a bit and the dynamics of how to deal with different types of teams and then also the multitasking, the aggressiveness of the entire sort of industry that, where you're in, you have to think on your feet.

Katie Kirschner: It's very stressful. Um, I loved every minute I will say I loved working in the industry. Um, but from there I decided, you know, I was in school at the time. Most people they have a job or they're in school and um, I was actually a musical theater major and I had this great passion for learning about theater and music and I did quite a bit of theater, um, from chorus to a musical theater all the way to dramas on the stage. And then I realized I also had a great knack for languages. So I started learning languages at an early age. So I am Japanese and Irish. Um, so my, my mom and she grew up a little bit in Japan as well, California. US, my grandmother, straight off the boat. Um, my dad has that Irish Lithuanian background. So he's a very eclectic, funky background.

Katie Kirschner: So I grew up in this multinational sort of cultural home, so by nature I wanted to learn different languages. I just thrived on understanding the culture. So because of that I kind of got drawn into well who, who lets you see other countries and kind of learn about cultures and where would language value in that I fell into business. So I changed my major from musical theater to where apparently you'll starve and it's so hard to get into. And I was like, all right, I moved to business and um, I loved it and I kind of, you know, it's just so funny. You, you, you study theater and you realize how much you'll actually use theater and business. But, um, yes, branding, for example, marketing, a form of form of theater, uh, that should be a play by the way. I'm going to get coined for that.

Katie Kirschner: Um, so I started in the business realm and I'm with languages and with travel. So I also love to travel. I think the only way for an individual to truly learn about the culture that you're going to sell into or do you understand? There are two things you've gotta, um, you gotta learn their language and you got to learn their food. I think that's the basis of every culture, but we'll get into that part. So after that, um, I got my bachelor's in Spanish, Italian and a international business from Georgia State University. Loved the panthers. I'm straight into the city and I actually started college when I was 16 years old, so that was, just, won't go into that AP, finished that needed to go to college earlier, decided to do so. But um, after that I was like, okay, well I'm really loving this business aspect and this was during a time where, you know, I think a lot of millennials can identify if you're in the older realm with the millennials, but recession and hard to get jobs and um, you know, where am I going to go next?

Katie Kirschner: So I actually decided to, um, move into my masters right away. So along with my masters, I, um, um, I studied international business and I had a focus on branding and corporate strategy. Okay. So, um, give me one second, just one second. Sorry. There we go. I just have to move. We have, we have a ecofriendly building here at NCR, so if no one's moving in a room, the lights will go out. So sorry about that. Um, another plus for NCR. But, so after I finished my master's in international business, I, um, I did a couple of boutique consulting engagement, so I first lived in Caracas, Venezuela, and I did it associate engagement there. Um, and then I was like, you know, I want to do consulting and I think when you get your masters or you always think of like this amazing life for everyone travels and you get to experience the cultures.

Katie Kirschner: They always, sometimes you think consulting first. Right? And that's, that's what I wanted to do. I also loved corporate strategy, so I was like, I wonder if this whole thing. And so the dean of my business or the dean of our International Business College actually sat me down and he was like, okay, um, you know, what do you, what are your plans for your life? Basically drew a timeline, which was the most valuable thing this gentleman could do. Um, and he just said, you know, do you want to have kids and get married here and, you know, what are your aspirations, what do you want to learn, et cetera. And so I told them all these things and um, I was just everyone and anyone to do that timeline timeline at least a certain amount of your life, you know, your major goals, you know, what do you want out of your life?

Katie Kirschner: And he geared me, he said, well, based off of that actually wouldn't suggest consulting, but everyone needs a basis in operations, every company needs operation. So it would be, it would be so valuable for you to learn that. Um, and just through connections, um, and a job that popped up with a global logistics company, I got placed there. So, um, that was leading strategy slash marketing for the Americas region for um, one of the top three global logistics companies in the world. So huge, massive company. Um, and that was my first, like, I wouldn't say it was like my real job, you know, you consider, you don't have to sit in a restaurant, a real job. I don't know why people don't because it is a real job or you bolting going around Italy and all over these places, but I'm really getting into that corporate world and then having to explore house.

Katie Kirschner: How the real world does what you learned in your masters, you know? Um, started there. Then I decided through that. I actually traveled the world live in a couple different places. Hong Kong is Argentina, Madrid and I met my husband through that who then encouraged me to go back to Europe to live there and I decided not to move with the company I currently was with, which was a German company. We learned a lot of cultural aspects about, um, and this is the funny part. I worked for a German company in America and then I moved to Germany and I got hired by an American company so, and I actually got hired there because they wanted an individual who could translate why American culture doesn't fit everywhere and why the strategies or the marketing they're going to instill won't work in the rest of Europe or in Germany itself was like, that's really interesting.

Katie Kirschner: So, um, got hired there, moved up the ranks to lead, I'm sales and marketing for the region, more marketing focus this time, kind of cool because I could take my strategy aspects and then apply that to implementation strategy. And then from there, um, we got a new CEO while I was in that position and I guess I made an impression on him somehow and so he pulled me to leading marketing and communications globally for the company. So they say, yeah, it was a, it was a big job. Um, and I, man, it was, I was awesome that he has so much faith in me to do that. Um, I mean I was competent at the same time. This is a four point $5,000,000,000 company, 29,000 employees, but the nine countries. And I'm just thinking, okay, I can do this. Like, and I loved, he brought me into the office when he had first asked me whether I wanted to.

Katie Kirschner: First he asked me if I was interested in the position. I was like, yes, please. Like who's not going to interested in someone's telling you, would you like to leave? Marketing Communications globally for the company, and he brings me in. He said, okay, listen, I want to know if you had one fifth of the resources that we have today within marketing communications. What would you do?

Amanda Hammett: And question? Yeah,

Katie Kirschner: it was a great question because yeah, that's a tough one. Um, so I laid out kind of just off the top of my head a plan and I said, well, I think these are the most important areas to focus it based on what I've seen in the field. And that was important. I had been in the field, I'd seen what wasn't and what was working, especially from a European perspective I had gained. I gained quite a network and some of the other regions just because it became you just start to create it because you're creating fields, kind of marketing elements.

Katie Kirschner: Um, so I brought that to the top and I told him what I, what I would cut automatically where we need to focus as a business. I knew our strategy just because that trickle down quite easily. Um, so then he said that was great and I guess he decided to put me in the position, um, and he said the best thing that I did, because I talked to him later about it when I presented it was I didn't come in and tell him, well, the first thing I would do is, you know, build another empire. I would start again and I would try and build my empire. Um, so it wasn't as power focus, it was more where can we get the best result with the small, smallest amount of resources. And it's not to say, well, I would start building resources again, which apparently it was more, Hey, if I have to be scrappy, like I know how to be scrappy.

Katie Kirschner: Um, I've had a job since I was 15 years old and I've, you know, I know how to kind of build things out without having much. So, um, I guess that helps in that scenario. And um, so from there that company actually got acquired and I decided not to stay on with the acquiring company, um, because it would have had to live in a different country than Germany and I didn't want to move, so it was just this perfect kind of time in my life. I said, you know what, I'm ready to come back to the states. I hadn't been in the states about nine years and I wanted to come back to family. Um, so I interviewed for the position at NCR while I was still in Germany. I had 11 interviews, which is pretty insane, but I'm NCR is they like to know that their people are good people, so I can, uh, I can also say that that's a good thing.

Katie Kirschner: Um, yeah. And then I got my first position within, um, like a portfolio sort of marketing role and then um, marketing change and shift a little bit within our company. We're dynamic, um, with, with the technology industry, you, which is just as dynamic. You also have to be dynamic in nature. So then I'm here I am fantastic.

Amanda Hammett: Oh my gosh, you have had all of these like crazy experiences in a relatively short amount of time. I mean, you've probably had a lot of love momentus different occasions in your career that someone would have over the course of like a 20 or 30 year career. Do you know what I'm saying?

Katie Kirschner: Yeah, I do. And that's why people don't believe me when I tell them how old I am, although I try not to tell them how old I am, but I'm actually serious. I've, when I was, when I first started my leading, I'm leading marketing communications for that company. People would first meet me, they would say, I was just wondering like, how, how old are you? And I said, well, I mean, you're, you're more than welcome. Two guests don't ask a woman her age. Uh, although I don't care, you know, I'll tell him that I said I, I, you know, you can guess I have, you know, I have two degrees. I've lived in seven different countries. You know, I'm married. So I was married or getting married at the time. So I'm getting married at the time, part of my degrees is a masters and they would be like, okay, yeah. So you're like, you just like age really well. So you're like 39. Right? And this is like years back. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like even if you said I aged well and then you told me that you thought it was 39, I don't know, I don't know to take that as a compliment or not.

Katie Kirschner: And it's partly because people, I mean you have people our age who we, we've just, we love to learn and we've been ambitious in nature and um, and it's even the aspect of a collectic learning or focused learning, right? I just happen to learn from many different fields and um, and, and fortunate enough to have learned strategy, which is a science that can be applied to any industry, including marketing. Marketing is also the science. So, um, I just think people don't, they don't match the two to think. There's no way that you can have done all that and have been that young. So, um, I, um, yeah,

Amanda Hammett: that's awesome. I mean, that is just an incredible background of information though, and I feel like what I see a lot of times with my rockstar millennials is that they do have what I call a lily pad of experiences. You're here and you're gaining skills and information and you're learning, but then you're ready to move on when you feel like you've mastered it, you're, you're not willing to sit there and just wait, you know, for the next thing to come trickling down to. You want to proactively go after it and so you do more like lily pad hops. Whereas previous generations were more willing to wait and move up wrong by wrong above singular silo and you, you are not singular in your silos.

Katie Kirschner: I don't know if it's even just that. So I would also say it's, it's the mentality that certain generations have. So I hate when I hate. I hate to use the word hate. I dislike when people say, Hey, millennials, you know, our, our company hoppers or career hoppers and that's just. It may be true in some cases, but in other cases it's simply listened. The, the environment that we live in today, so dynamic in nature that were actually pushed to move in different areas and learn different things. I mean if you look at a marketing role today, you might as well be a technology officer like you're meant to know technologies and data and analytics. You can be, you can run down a data and analytics if you want to. So actually if you had come from a marketing role and then you went into a data and analytics role and you had to go to a different company or whatever to learn that that was the force of the whole where consumer technologies and consumers meeting commerce are changing.

Katie Kirschner: So it's not so much that I'm not loyal to this company, to the company, but just for my own nature to do my, my passion better. So not much, but my passion better. I've got to learn x or I've got to know x and I get pulled in a different direction. Yes.

Amanda Hammett: Fantastic. That is, that is amazing. So Katie, with all of this experience that you have, um, I would imagine that there have been some bumps and bruises along the way. There may be some lessons learned along the way. So, you know, what is the one that immediately jumps into your mind?

Katie Kirschner: Oh, so the top one I would say is if there's one thing I've learned, it's to be, I live by this motto and I tell my team I live by this motto as well and it's to be open, honest and transparent. Um, and I've learned that having those two things at the core of the relationships that you have not just personally but also within business is actually proves to be quite fruitful. So I've learned that the hard way. I've had previous bosses who would think that I was competing with them because I'm just that learn, go theater and always throwing out ideas and challenging things. So I play Devil's corporate strategy. I play devil's advocate a lot when you build strategy to do that and a stress test things. And sometimes that wasn't taken as well as you would've liked it to be. And so I realized whenever I present an idea or I'm forcing someone to push themselves to think differently, even if it's my superior, if it's my boss, I need to also first establish that the relationship is. And this is the second thing that I hold core to learning is, um, my sole goal is actually for my peers, my employees, and my managers to be successful.

Katie Kirschner: That is my goal. So when nowhere is there, my goal is for me to be successful or my goal is for me to find success and move up and move on. Because if I hold dear to say, I want my boss to be successful and how can I help my boss be successful, my employees, how can I help them learn, grow and become successful? By default, I've become successful. But if you, if you change your mentality too, it's about you and it's about you becoming successful. You Act differently. Um, so I've, I've learned that from that experience of former boss who thought, you know, I was trying to take the reins and I wanted their job. I realize now I have to be honest and open like right up front and I need to continually be transparent with these individuals to why am I doing these actions, you know, be transparent into how do I think, you know, how can you interact with me and being honest in, in feedback.

Katie Kirschner: Like if I give individual feedback that there's a direct part, open, honest, transparent, and probably direct would be a fourth one. I would love that back to meet, right? Because I can't grow or change develop if it's not that way. So um, bump in a road is, is people tend to think, or I don't want to say people in general, but individuals may think, you know, I need to guard my intelligence or guard that because I will be, I don't want to be indispensable. And it's like, man, if you just knew I'm putting the team members first and your boss first in success, like it's life changing. It's actually a weight off of your chest to always think it has to be about you reaching that next level. You'll get there. You will and much faster if you're helping other people become successful. Much, much better.

Amanda Hammett: Okay. Absolutely. I mean, for every person that you know will maybe not treat you as well, there'll be 20 others that will be like, oh, you know, Katie did this for me and they'll bend over backwards for you and do even more than you could ever ask. Sorry, I just hit my desk. All right. Fantastic. That's awesome. Alright, so we, it feels like 20 minutes ago we talked about Georgia state and going into the working world now. When you were sitting in class at Georgia state or in your master's program, were there, you kind of mentioned that there were some differences in the, what you were learning versus the reality. So tell us a little bit about what was that reality check like for you? Was it a huge wakeup call or did, do you feel like you transitioned easily?

Katie Kirschner: Um, you know, it was, I just actually had lunch with one of my professors recently. Okay. Master's program at Georgia state. And I told him, I said, you know, there's, I think what they teach you in school is foundational. It's things that you, you, you should know going in, like you should know how to do accounting x and that helps you because you have to apply it to y and Z, whatever that is. There are foundational things to know as a basis. I think the wakeup call came from, um, knowing, understanding how politics work. So politics isn't just in politics. Um, so you're like, hey, yeah, these, these processes, this is how they're suppose this is the ideal. I learned that this was the ideal and this is how you build strategy and this is the reason you do it. And you try and, you know, bring a company out of ailment.

Katie Kirschner: And it's like, yes, but there are also, there are targets and goals that are sometimes unseen that you don't realize until you get in there. Right? So, um, you know, I've been in an, I did boutique consulting, so I've also been in companies that are like, yeah, we want this, we want this to be the goal. And you're like, okay, well I've done the research and I've done the data and actually like this is a better goal. Like this would be the ideal because based on where the market's going or whatever it is, and they're like, yeah, yeah, but we want this to be the goal, so we want you to create data and strategy so this should be the goal and you're thinking your head. That doesn't make sense. That goes against everything I learned like shouldn't you? You should look at the balance sheet and you should do the research.

Katie Kirschner: Right? But they understand like that and it may not that it's a malicious thing. It may be they have a different longterm vision of what they want to do with that company. They want to do something completely different or someone's going to retire and that's going to change the direction of where that company is going to go or or whether they're going to set themselves up for sale or whatever it is. So learning that there is a, there are, there's a politics and be underlining initiatives that don't. Don't pop up in your everyday case study when you walk through your master's program. That's probably the biggest, like, Whoa, okay. So it's not, you mean it's not all textbook

Amanda Hammett: thing. I mean those, those people get in there and just mess things up.

Katie Kirschner: Why would you want to do that? That makes no sense. And then, you know, you never know what it's for. But clients always in it.

Amanda Hammett: That's awesome. So let me ask you this, Katie, um, let's talk about, you know, bosses in the past, mentors maybe in the past or maybe currently that you have, um, what are they doing or what have they done to keep you really engaged? Because I mean, you're super dynamic, flat. You're on your own, so they probably don't have to do a whole lot, but you know, what is it that they do that keeps you super passionate and just like out there asking tough questions and getting that feedback. What, what is it that they do for you?

Katie Kirschner: Oh man, some of the best managers I've ever had, I'm truly lived and not just set it but lived empowerment. So example, the managers that would come to me and say, hey, we need to get, we need to get x done, or we have this chat, Alan Cheer, what would you recommend doing? Or what would you do? I said, well, based off Xyz, I would do this. Okay, go like you go and do it, or you, you go figure it out. Or are not that they wouldn't guide along the way, but that they, they felt that they could empower me to make a big decision or to build something that would actually affect anything in the company. You know, I think empowerment to say um, to not micromanage constantly. Like always worried like, oh, what is this? She's too young or she's going to fail because she doesn't know any of it. She hasn't been in the industry for 30 years. I've had two fantastic manager, actually three fantastic merrick managers are just like, they were like, well, what do you think? And um, yeah, well, if that's what you think, let's go with that. You know, it's, it's the simple trust in I think this because of x. and I just see, you know why, and they believe it and they empower you to go and do it and you know, what, you may fail sometimes, like your, your guests or what you decided to do may not work out. But I've had those same managers come back to me like, you know what? Yeah, that didn't work out, you know, that's okay. So what else would you do if it didn't? If they asked me that didn't work. So what do you think was the challenge in that? Why didn't that work out?

Katie Kirschner: And it made you think, okay, well, if this is why it didn't work, then maybe we can try x and, you know, change some things, some elements to get to the right solution to get it to the target. I'm that afraid to fail. And I know that's so overused. Don't be afraid to fail. Um, but you actually have to have management that is also not afraid to fail and afraid for you to fail. Um, and I love that. And I've had some great managers that they empower you and they're not afraid for you to fail. That's awesome. That is, that's really great and that's a great sign of a wonderful manager or leader because I can tell you that it's not always the case. Now there are people who like to control and there are people who, um, you know, they're, they're scared because their team is a reflection of them and at the same time you have managers who are like, Hey, if we fail, we fail together and I'll take the rap just as much as you'll, you know, you'll get the rap.

Amanda Hammett: So that's awesome. That's good. That's good. And that makes the team want to work even harder to make them look good.

Katie Kirschner: Oh yeah.

Amanda Hammett: So, okay, well good. Now what about any kind of perks for any, any of the companies that you've been with current or in the past that you were just like, man, this is nice. I mean, it doesn't have to be, you know, ping pong tables or anything of that nature, but, you know, extra days off or anything that just pops into your mind that a company has offered as far as benefits or perks.

Katie Kirschner: Oh yes. Benefits, um, keeps you engaged and happy at work. I'm probably the worst at this actually. I'll, if I can give one best I'll give to you. So the first one is flexibility and time. So, um, I think the worst thing a company can do, especially in this day days, age and says you need to work from eight to five, you need to be in the opposite and you need to leave at five.

Katie Kirschner: And it's like, okay, well, you know, if you're more flexible and you allow me to get a better work life balance, you're going to get far more productivity out of me. And I currently work for a company that's like that, that's very like, hey, you know, you don't have to. If you live not in the city and you need to drive all the way down here, comment like 10, leave by two. So you miss traffic, you'll finish your day at home. You may wait longer one day and shorter the next day when they strive for results rather than a time clock. That is one of the best benefits that accompany can give. And believe me, you'll get the results if you don't focus on the time clock. And the second thing is, um, I am a workout masochist. So part of my work life balance is being able to go to the gym and uh, I don't want to.

Katie Kirschner: I'm like NCR, so great. Like come work at NCR. I'm basically trying to get talent. So anyone who watches this, I'm basically trying to get down. Okay, video, okay plug. But we have the coolest Jim ever in this, in our building. And the reason I like that is it's a part of the work balance conversation, right? Um, for them to be able to provide that, to focus on health and to make sure, you know, hey, not only are you flexible for when you're in the office and when you're not, we focused on the results, but we also want you to stay healthy while you're here. Um, and have the ability to work out and they give classes. I'm also on great schedules. They have wonderful personal trainers in there as well. So, um, I love the fact that I can come in really early and I can work out and then I can just go straight to my desk or I can on my lunch break, go and work out and, you know, come back up to the office and I like that flexibility. So that's probably the second coop. Cool perk. Let's say.

Amanda Hammett: That's a really cool. I love that. I, I, that's, that's pretty cool. Very cool. So I assume that you don't go straight to your desk from working. We have an awesome locker rooms. I think that your, your coworkers would appreciate.

Katie Kirschner: I'm always like I did where the. Okay, just making sure.

Amanda Hammett: So, um, I, I know that you are obviously not fresh out of college, but is there something that you, is because you are fairly new, you, you were on the job market fairly recently, so you have a good idea about what it's like being out there looking for a job. What is it that companies need to do a better job of when they're looking at getting more rockstar? Millennials like yourself?

Katie Kirschner: Oh man, you know what, my biggest pet peeve and I am relatively new because I was applying when I was in Germany for the job in the US, you know, I know people want to be very extensive in the hiring process. I think that there are a lot of companies out there that make it so difficult even to apply and I want to say like an application is important, but it only says so much about a person and if you're looking, if he, if the job you're hiring for is a copywriter or a communication person, absolutely.

Katie Kirschner: Then you'll probably want, I want you to write an essay about xY, , Z and I know they're there. You need to weed out some, you know, because they probably get thousands of them. And I know this, I hire people as well. We get thousands and thousands of CD's, but truly I'm talking to somebody is a little bit different than having them, you know, go through this massive application process. And um, I think interviews are important. So I actually love that NCR did 11 interviews to hire me, you know, because it gave me a chance to see all the different people in the company and talk to them. Um, the different viewpoints, what each of them would be asking me, but also it gave, and we do this today, like I don't, I'm not the only one who interviews individuals that we hire my team, I actually have my peers interview them, I have my managers, other people in different areas I know that they would engage with because everyone has a different perspective.

Katie Kirschner: So what, you as a hiring manager, you may know what you want and you're like, I have this vision and the insight you get from someone else looking at that person from a different angle is so valuable and you don't get that from an application because you're not. Or an essay that someone wrote because someone who. So I'll give, I'll give a concrete example. I did horribly on my, like I'm just, I'm not a test. I'm not a standardized test taker. And I literally went to um, to admissions, the head of admissions at Georgia state. I don't know if she remembers this, maybe she will. She ever watches this, but I went to her and I said, listen, I know that my score is not good. I'm not good at standardized tests. I said, you could give me any other tests in the world except for a standardized test.

Katie Kirschner: I will replace it. I said, I guarantee you like I am going to be a great asset to this university, that I'm going to do such a great job. And she said, well, let me have you talked to you know, the business. I'm the Dean for our Institute of International Business or whatever it was at that time. He had a different position. I said, okay, and so I sat down and I said, listen, I'm telling and you know, I, I pitched myself, I talked to them, I told him why I would bring value. I told him how, sorry I didn't score well on it. I did all these, you know, different ways to like, do better at it, but I'm telling you like, these are concrete. I said, you know, how long I've worked and you know, why, what I bring as a value, like just verbally being able to say all that.

Katie Kirschner: Um, and I know some people have started doing videos to do that. I've seen that on the Internet, which I think is funny. But, um, I got, I got in based off of that, like for, for going to a business school, which is mostly people look at your scores. I got in strictly off of an interview or two interviews and then telling why my background's mattered. And I love the example of, um, a cat. Cole, I don't know if you've heard of her. She's a, she's an executive here in Atlanta as well for focus brands and she, um, she also, she doesn't have an undergraduate degree, but she wanted to go into a master's program and so for her to say, Hey, I don't need my undergraduate degree to be able to do this program, I think I'll bring value to it. You know, she went to Ted Turner and asked him for a referral and she's like, listen, like I'm telling you, um, I can really bring value to you by me coming to your program. And I think the same is with companies. I'm not saying interview every single person you have to have a lead out, but don't make your application process like the most horrendous thing are people writing 17 essays, et cetera. I don't think them writing 17 essays will let you know how they're going to be in their job. I would rather, and I actually saw Siemens do this. Oh, I said a name of a company I would see a as is where they, you recorded

Katie Kirschner: video and just talk about yourself. And I was like, that's genius, man. I wish more companies would do that because I'd love to watch the video over. Even me as a hiring manager, I'd rather watch a video than read your 17 essays.

Amanda Hammett: All right, so we've already made a disclaimer that this is a hiring firing for instance. So there you go. Okay, that's really cool. And I couldn't agree more. I actually was speaking at a university recently and a lot of the students, it was right before graduation, a lot of the students were talking about the process of getting a job and you know, they were going onto some fantastic companies like oracle and Cisco and I mean huge brand name companies, but they were all complaining about that initial application piece that one of them said it took like three and a half hours to just get through the process and they're like, and then I never heard anything back and it's like that, you know, three hours I'll never get back.

Amanda Hammett: And I'm like, yeah, that's probably true. Yeah. So I mean, it, it, it is, it's painful universally. I think so. Very cool. All right, so Katie, I mean this has been fantastic. I've learned so much. I mean, I literally, I now want to be your friend and then look like we're going to hang out because we both live in Atlanta, but we do have to wrap up. So is there any last nuggets of advice that you would like to give the audience of the millennial rock star podcast?

Katie Kirschner: Wow. Pressure. Um, you own your happiness, so you choose your attitude and you own your happiness. So don't expect a manager to own it for you. Don't expect a friend to own it for you. Um, you own how you choose to approach things and how what you know is your passion, what's going to make you happy, so focus on you, making yourself happy and less about thinking that other people or things are going to do it for you.

Amanda Hammett: Wow. Wise words, I can't say anything else. So thank you so much for joining us, Katie, and thank you for watching. See you next time.

Amanda Hammett: Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the millennial Rockstar podcasts. If you are looking for even more information on millennials and some free resources, visit my website at Amanda Hamot Dot Com. The link is below. It's Amanda Hamot Dot Com. There you can download a free millennial employee engagement guide that will give you all kinds of tips and tricks on how to keep those millennials engaged on a day to day basis. Because we all know that millennials who are happy at work are more productive at work.

Hey, this is Amanda Hammett and this is the millennial Rockstar podcast.

Amanda Hammett: Hey, this is Amanda Hammett. I am known as the millennial translator because I help companies attract, retain, and engage top millennial talent, and my top millennial talent of the day is coming to us from John Deere. Her name is Erin Welken, Erin. Welcome to the show.

Erin Welken: Hi everyone. I'm like Amanda said, my name is Erin Welken. I have been with John Deere and numerous different roles and all different functional areas for the last 10 years, so I'm super excited to be here and to share some of my experience with Amanda. I was honestly really surprised that I met her and she informed me that I was a millennial, so I didn't know that was the case. So now that I am, I guess I'll just embrace that and maybe try to change the perspective a little bit.

Amanda Hammett: Well, that's awesome. That's exactly the whole point of this entire podcast. We can just shut down right now. Perfect. Pointed that out. Awesome. Awesome. Well, I will say that the first time I met you, we were at a woman in manufacturing event and I was just really taken with you and your story and just your poise and just everything. Um, and so I'd love to chat with you all through that. Again, just this time for the audience, but let's, let's get started. Can you, can you give me an idea about, you know, were there any, when you came into the workforce from college, were there any reality checks that you face where you thought, you know, coming out of College, Oh, the working world is going to be this way and then you got there and it was like, nope, not like that at all.

Erin Welken: Yeah. So I think the biggest thing for me was realizing that it's not about what you execute but how you execute it. So I kind of came in and was less of a job that I knew nothing about. And so I was learning and then I gave a list of things that I needed to drastically change, which is super fun because everybody loves change and then I just tried to execute that list and it did not work at all. So that was one of my key takeaways is that it's not so much what I do but how I do it and how I engage people. And so it ended up being a fantastic learning opportunity. But that's been something that's stuck with me for my entire career is that I have got to work with others and I have to have a really compelling why the why is this important, why am I trying to change it? And so as I've kind of built my career, I've built myself on being able to work and collaborate with others.

Amanda Hammett: That's really cool. So the way I would spend that to a company is that this is the way you have built your personal brand within the company. You're like, you're known as a collaborator. You are known to, to build that in to everything that you do. And I think that that is so important, especially the way that the economy is changing and the workplace is changing. That's going to pay dividends for you long term.

Erin Welken: Yeah.

Amanda Hammett: Well very cool. So, um, what is your current role with John Deere?

Erin Welken: So I'm the manager of business process improvement and so my focus areas on supplier quality and I'm actually in the supply management organization, so it's a little bit of, it's actually a role that I was probably given because of the collaboration skills. Um, so the supplier quality lives in one buckets in John Deere and site management has its own bucket. So I support all of our ag and turf business, which is about 80 percent of our suppliers globally for John Deere and help collaborate between our supplier quality organization and our supply management organization.

Amanda Hammett: Wow. That is, um, that sounds like a very small job to do with 80 percent of all of John [inaudible] worldwide business. Okay. All right. So now moving into this role, I mean you said that you probably got this role because of your collaboration experience and all that good stuff.

Amanda Hammett: Did you find in this role or in other roles that there were any sort of stumbling blocks are learning curves that you really, really had to face and, and how did you do that? How did you manage it?

Erin Welken: Yeah, so my background, my degree is in sports medicine and athletic training, so athletic training and duology. I was a premed major. So now I'm in John Deere supply management. So let's talk about learning curves and roadblocks and whatever else you want to talk about. I got a whole dirty for you. So every job I've ever had in John deeres than brand new to me and not what I went to school for. Um, I actually got accepted in medical school, decided to wait a year because I was getting married, started at John Deere and just loved it. Um, so I know you've got questions probably later, but what I loved, but, um, I, I convinced them that I could do safety because I knew about injuries and the factory that I started at had an injury problem and they'd never had a safety person. So they posted for it.

Erin Welken: I'm not sure that they exactly know what they wanted, but I convinced them that I was there girl, because I could do injuries and new ergonomics. I didn't know anything about Osha. I had never worked in a factory. I mean, not that I grew up on a farm farm kid, so I knew about John Deere, but that was the extent of it. So I went from there and then actually became environment health and safety manager. So again, environmental, EPA, all of those calculations totally different. So again, another learning curve. But one thing I've gotten really good at throughout all of my experiences is not being afraid to step up to the challenge. So I know one of my strengths is that I'm actually really good at learning. Like I love the challenge. I love to learn, just throw something at me that I don't understand and I'm going to dive right in and be happy about it and as long as I have the autonomy to kind of make it my own.

Erin Welken: But I did that and then it went into a labor relations role that was focused on like a human psychology. So how can we use like by people make errors and study that and improve our processes with engineering to improve that? Um, so again, something completely different, but it's also shaped how I worked. And from there I went into a operations, basically an operations project manager side is strategic planning for the factory and you just reported to me, did some continuous improvement things, worked with the operations team developing that type of thing and then into lean manufacturing that initially it was us and Canada and ended up supporting a lot of factories even globally.

Amanda Hammett: So. Wow. So is that five or six roles in 10 years?

Erin Welken: You know, I don't know. I've never of probably five or six,

Amanda Hammett: a few. But I mean, I, I love the progression and I think that this is something that we're starting to very commonly see is millennials have this, there's this issue that people are saying, oh, they only stay. They don't even stay two years. It's awful. But what I've heard from you and what I've heard from every other rock star I have interviewed to this point is that they've actually had long tenures at companies, but they have moved, whether it's a lateral move or a slightly, you know, advanced move, but from area to area because they love that learning challenge. Whereas in previous generations you go into a company and you move just up. But millennials tend to move in a very like lily pad from, you know, a frog jumping from lily pad to lily pad. And that's what I've seen with you.

Erin Welken: That's right. Yeah. And one of the things I look at is what are the competencies that I want to gain? So I have a list of here's what I perceive are my strengths, here's what are my weaknesses and here's what I think I'm is untested or unproven at John Deere. So I always picture of people aren't a talent review and they're having a discussion about me, there's going to be people in the room and they're going to say, um, she hasn't demonstrated this. So she hasn't done that. And maybe I have that experience outside of John Deere that tells me that I could do it and I can be good at it, but I might not have had those specific internal experiences. So when I pick or consider next jobs, I mean, there's a lot that I consider about one of the key drivers for me are what are the things that I haven't shown yet, because eventually I want to get to the point that people have enough trust and also build my network as I go through all of these areas.

Erin Welken: But, um, I don't look at job titles, I don't look at pay actually. Um, I really look at it for myself, what am I going to learn from this job? And then how does that ultimately, um, enhanced my ability to be successful in my kind of end future job that I really want. And so what competencies do I think I need? What are my gaps? What can I continue to build? Um, what am I known for, what's my brand? Um, all of that. And it's really kind of helping me be really flexible with what the company needs. Um, I haven't boxed myself in which I think is really good and eventually it should lead to some of the roles that I'm really curious about or that I'd like to achieve in the future.

Amanda Hammett: That's awesome. So I got, I've got to ask at this point, I mean you, you talked about, I mean you seem incredibly self aware about, you know, what are your strengths, but you also mentioned what are your gaps are do you have other people that are giving you input as far as you know, hey Erin, I've noticed, you know, you could use some work on Xyz or those mentors or those bosses who was helping you with this process?

Erin Welken: So I wouldn't say I've been really blessed with informal mentors, so I've had reached out and I was doing my mba. I actually reached out and got a couple of formal mentors in some of the areas that I just wasn't, didn't know anything about like marketing. So what do we do for marketing at John Deere? Okay. I can read about in a book or you can tell me. So I did that, but honestly, just in meetings, I had the opportunity to present quite a bit, you know, on records and different things. And I had some leaders say, hey, you know, I'd like to have a career discussion with you. Or I've reached out and said, you know, I really liked what you said in that meeting or I went to this panel discussion that you were talking about. Would you mind if I set up a 30 minute meeting with you?

Erin Welken: So I've really advocated and in so some people have known me for a couple of years and others maybe saw me present for 10 minutes or maybe talk to me in the hallway for two minutes, you know. But I always go and say, here's my resume, here's who I am. But most importantly, here's what I perceive are my competencies that have gained out of each one of these and here's what I think are my gaps. And I put out there and then they've given me feedback and said, well, this might also be a gap based on your, um, jobs. This might also be a strength or this is one thing that I see about you, and so over time I've had probably four or five of those really in depth discussions with leaders from different functional areas, but I'm initiated it, no, a couple of times offered, but I had to take the step forward and actually do it.

Erin Welken: Um, and I had to go to them very organized so I didn't want to waste their time and I really wanted some good feedback from them and that's really helped. That shifted my thinking from what job do I want next to what competencies do I want to fill? If I wouldn't have had those discussions, I don't know that my brain would have connected the dots to competencies and kind of backing off on that focus on grade levels or job titles or things like that. So those discussions really helped shape some of the decisions that I've made.

Amanda Hammett: Wow. Okay. So I just want to be incredibly clear for our younger employees that are listening. When you say you go into these incredibly organized, break it down for me. What does that mean for tio?

Erin Welken: Um, so I take at least half an hour to an hour and really get what are my three to five he items that I want to get out of this meeting. What are some ways that I could potentially help that person? So what are some of their challenges that they may have in that role? Like what can I offer back kind of to reciprocate to them, you know, so I try to offer that back and then like I said, I just, I sent my resume in advance so at least a week in advance or I put it right in the meeting notice and then I also let them know here's my strengths and weaknesses and some have also some of the jobs that I would consider for a next job and what my ultimate job would be. So if I could pick an ultimate role in might not be the job title, but where do I think I want to go? And then that helps shape the whole conversation for them because they can see where I want to go. It much better informs where my gaps are and gives them an opportunity to give me better feedback,

Amanda Hammett: That is amazing and I love that you're doing that and I love that you're advocating for yourself that a lot of times especially we tend to see this a little more in women than in men, but they're just not willing to speak up and they keep saying, I want to let my work speak for itself, but at the end of the day, it's the person that puts forth the effort and puts forth the, Hey, look at me, you know, this is what I want. Those are the people that tend to get it.

Erin Welken: Yeah.

Amanda Hammett: that's awesome. Um, all right, so I've got, I've got a couple more specific questions about what the inner workings of, of what you do. Is there anything that your current boss or past bosses or coworkers have done that really keeps you engaged and wanting to be productive at work and moving John Deere forward?

Erin Welken: So the biggest thing for me right now, so single mom with two kids, it's flexibility. Just the fact that John Deere is super flexible with me, so I've got a job and they trust me to do it and get it done and I've got some flexibility that I can, you know, go pick up my kids from school if I need to. I don't do it every day, but you know, when I need to, if I've got a babysitter conflict or whatever, I can do that. I don't have to take vacation to do it if I need to, if I do that now I want to make it up after they go to bed. If I need to finish out my day, that's okay. So to me, just being able to, I don't call it work life balance, I call it work life management, but being able to actually manage my life and some weeks it's, you know, 70, 80 hours of work and other weeks if it's a little less than 40, okay.

Erin Welken: In the end it, it has balanced me and that's probably the most important. Um, the other thing is just the environment I think that John Deere creates is really, really positive. So it's a very, um, kind of, I don't know what the right word is, but brought together culture so it's not highly competitive and it's really collaborative. So for me, I always enjoy meeting new people and I almost always have the feeling that we're mutually working towards a common cause and that's awesome. So I don't feel like, so he's going to undercut me. I mean it's, there's been maybe one or two in my, all of my time at John Deere that I've met people that you're like probably wouldn't trust you, but for the most part our leadership and the people that I get to work with are just phenomenal. So having that collaborative where you actually feel like you can make friends is really important to me.

Amanda Hammett: So would you say it's more of like a, almost almost like a family type environment?

Erin Welken: Yep, for sure.

Amanda Hammett: And is that something that you think comes down from the c suite down or is it like your direct leadership or what do you mean?

Erin Welken: Um, you know, I think it really starts from the top of our company to be completely transparent. There isn't a leader in our company that I wouldn't feel comfortable with. I mean just two or three weeks ago I was in the elevator with our presidents of level number two right below the CEO, two presidents. So we're, you know, how's North Carolina, things like that and it's just not weird. And they, they smile and they take the first initiative to say hello and it makes it okay for you to have a conversation and say, you know, even if it's just a nice to meet you as you go down one floor or something like that. But they, I think they do a lot to try to open the door and to give you face time and opportunities to meet with them, which is really nice.

Amanda Hammett: You know what I love that I was, I was just having a conversation with a major corporation recently and we were talking about getting the CEO out there more like with the, with the employees and, and he really was struggling because he was like, I'm, I'm very private. And it's like, well, even when you're in kind like the cafeteria, the Commons area you need, you need to be approachable and so we need to do something to bridge that for you. Um, because you know, it, it counts when it comes to turnover, when employees feel comfortable and when they feel like everybody is working with them, there are more, more likely to be loyal, they're more likely to be engaged and they're more likely to be productive. And that's a bottom line issue right there. So I love that. I love that. I love that a lot actually. So, and what gets me is that, I mean, you're a woman, you're at John Deere and, and you don't typically think of John Deere is this passion of women. But, but you had told me before that you were actually very involved with the, the women Erg Group.

Erin Welken: Yes. Yeah. We have a women in operations erd group, which I'm the vice chair of. It's actually led by a male right now. So we've been rotating that I'm female. But it's really interesting because for us, most of our leaders are male and so we're trying to get women in there, but we've realized that we need to have men as partners with. And so our women in operations group is really focused on trying to understand why women don't want to come into operations. And some of it is, it's very structured. It's not talked about flexibility just a little bit ago that is not typical operations, you know, you've got a production workforce that reports to you and things like that. Um, as women I think we put up a lot of barriers, so a lot of automatic barriers and says I can't because. And as I started talking to women about being an operations or operations jobs, which I think are phenomenal, I started hearing a lot of I can't and nothing drives me more crazy than I can.

Erin Welken: Even if I hear myself say I can't, then that's exactly what I want to do because it drives me crazy. And so the women in operations group has really been great for that. I would erds in general at John Deere are amazing development opportunities. And a good way to build your network. Um, even when we just moved to North Carolina, the first people that I reached out to you, what were the people that I met in women in operations because it, hey, I'm moving right now. I've got a job that travels about 50 percent, which I could do from North Carolina. So that's awesome. I had a boss that was like, you know, you've already got a network. I trust you. Um, we can, we can work with that. That's fine. You can work from there. But in the end we had kind of been working on a transition plan and what's next for me, which is another thing that transparency.

Erin Welken: Um, but I didn't wait for him to figure it out for me. I reached out and just the, hey, no, I move in if you guys know of anything or anyone let me know as I found jobs that were actually posted that looks interesting to me. So again, I took a little change from my traditional path, but hey, this one looks interesting. Who Do I know that knows that hiring manager? And it was my network that I built through our women in operations Erg, found a couple people. I don't know if he got really annoyed or decide I have to hire this girl because no, you know, these people aren't going to forgive me. My friends aren't going to forgive me if I don't know. But that's, that really helped me quite a bit. So the, whatever your passion is, having those Erg groups in that network that you meet, that you went to bed otherwise, that you would have never gotten to work with and then prove yourself to them as lead it, it builds a lot of bridges for you in the future.

Amanda Hammett: Yeah. That is amazing. And I love that you've had all these opportunities because yeah, your network, it speaks volumes about you. Um, alright. Is there anything that um, John Deere, you feel, just the environment that they've created, the culture that they've created, is there way you feel that they're really supporting you and behind you and really encapsulated that family feel for you?

Erin Welken: So. Well, one of the things I've been really lucky to have some amazing bosses. So first and foremost, they focus a lot on development. So I can go, we have a whole John Deere University go and take courses. We have individual development plans that you can get alignment from your manager on what are the things that you want to do, what are the things you want to do to develop yourself that. So just knowing that I have a lot of control over what I do and how I choose to develop myself as the first thing. Um, the second thing is I know that they're having talent are you views, so I know that the concept of you're going to be stuck in any job for five or 10 years is pretty low unless you want to. And there are definitely people that want to, which is fantastic, but just knowing that it is part of a regular cadence and review and you don't know what goes on behind closed doors or who says what, but you know, that people are talking and it gives you the thought that there is an opportunity for you tomove up.

Erin Welken: Um, but I also think it kind of goes with who knows you, you know, so if you've got people in the room and only one person's ever heard of you, yeah, absolutely. It makes a slop. And who wants this person or you know, who could use this doesn't work really well. I think all of the ways that you can, can generate that and build those relationships helps a lot and it would also within John Deere then with the erds and with the different conferences that we have and just different ways to meet people and get out there and get visibility to leadership is huge. I feel like you're part of something important and you feel like you have an opportunity.

Amanda Hammett: Very cool. Now there is something I do want to discuss and I do want to to put out there is that you actually do some really interesting work outside of John Deere, outside of all of your responsibilities with John Deere and your family. You, you actually are doing something else really special. And I'd like for you to share. I'd like for you to share with us what that is.

Erin Welken: So I was widowed at the age of 29, so I had married my best friend who was also my coach and my mentor. Luckily he was like personality opposite of mine, so we matched really well. Um, but he passed away in a car accident unexpectedly and we had, I have two daughters they work for and two at the time, so I was, you know, gone half the time with work and really career focused and I had to put the brakes on and try to understand who am I now and what, you know, what's really going to work and how do I do this. And so, um, on the career side it was a, you talked about learning curves and I could talk about that, but you know, how do you build resilience, how do you reshape your career and understand how to be a single mom when you were in a, a household, all of that stuff.

Erin Welken: It took a little while and I'm forever grateful to John Deere for all of the help that they gave me, which is another. I'm, I was really loyal before, but I think it even went up more, not just because of how amazing may were in the challenges that I had, but anyways, fast forward a little while and I realized that my biggest fear for my kids was their ability to have a good education, um, with me trying to work and trying to do everything. It just knew I couldn't be super woman. So how, how was I going to help them get an education so they can be successful and I'm lucky that I do have a good job, but not everybody does. In fact, I'm over 40 percent of widows under the age of 45, live in poverty, less people that have kids. So you thinking about those kids now I lost a parent, now they're in poverty when maybe they weren't before and we're expecting them to study and do well.

Erin Welken: So I just felt like there was a huge opportunity for these kids to fall through the gap. And so I created the young living foundation and what I do is work to bridge the gap for kids in there and meet their educational needs. Whatever age they are, so it's pretty exciting. It's really my passion to do that. And then to help fund that. I do some speaking around planning for the unexpected and even resilience at work and things like that. Basically talk about anything if you will give me a donation to help these kids. So, um, so that's what I do and that's really my fun thing and I schedule it early mornings before work and at lunchtime and after work and make it work. But at the same point John Deere is also really supportive of that. So volunteering in the community and getting out to the schools and things like that are all things that they very, very actively support through a number of different programs. And so, um, I really appreciate that. And we have a John your foundation that provides donations through multiple different avenues. Nails provide matches for us. So we feel like no matter what your passion is, you can make a difference in Dundee was there to help you.

Amanda Hammett: That's amazing. I love that. I, I do, I. That was one of the things that I was so taken with when I met you was just that, I mean that is, that is something that for a lot of people is such a scary thing, but you, you made it through that and obviously you had a wonderful support system, but you're like, you know what, not only did this happen to me, but I recognize this could happen to others and how can I help? And that's amazing. I mean, that's, I think what we're all here to do in one shape way or another. Well, fantastic. Well, Erin, is it okay if our audience wants to reach out to you on Linkedin?

Erin Welken: I would love it.

Amanda Hammett: Perfect and perfect. Well, is it also a, would it, would it be okay with you in the show notes if I also include maybe a link to your foundation?

Erin Welken: That'd be awesome as well. Yes.

Amanda Hammett: Perfect. Perfect. Well, thank you guys so much for joining us for this episode of the millennial rock star podcast and Aaron, thank you so much for being on with us and for being a rockstar. Of course. Thank you guys again and we will see you in the very next episode. Bye. Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the millennial Rockstar podcasts. If you are looking for even more information on millennials and some free resources, visit my website at AmandaHammett.com. The link is below. It's AmandaHammett.com. There you can download a free millennial employee engagement guide that will give you all kinds of tips and tricks on how to keep those millennials engaged on a day to day basis because we all know that millennials who are happy at work are more productive at work.

Hey, this is Amanda Hammett and this is the millennial Rockstar podcast.

Amanda Hammett: All right, so today's Rockstar is rocky for from Microsoft, and the thing that you're going to notice right off the bat with rocky is that she's incredibly intelligent, articulate, and passionate, and one of the things that Microsoft has done for her is that they've given her a platform in which, which to share her passions, which happened to be women and millennials. So tune in and see what rocky has to share with us today. Hey, this is Amanda Hammett and today's episode of the Millennial Rock Star podcast has a very special guest because this is Rakhi Voria on the rock star podcast. Rocky, welcome to the show.

Rakhi Voria: Thanks for having me. It's great to be here.

Amanda Hammett: Awesome. So Rakhi actually is coming to us from Microsoft's headquarters in Seattle right now, correct?

Rakhi Voria: Correct.

Amanda Hammett: All right, so you're actually at home and not traveling the world like normal.

Rakhi Voria: Yeah, for once.

Amanda Hammett: Wonderful. So Rocky, why don't you tell the audience a little bit about what makes you a rockstar.

Rakhi Voria:Sure. Okay. Well, a little bit about me and my background. I grew up in Colorado, went to Colorado College, and then I went to the University of Oxford for graduate school and it was there actually that I came in contact with a Microsoft recruiter and now I'm working at Microsoft for six years. So I'm like many millennials. I didn't really know exactly what I wanted to do after school. All I knew was that I had an interest in business and what I loved about Microsoft was that it offered so many options and experiences. I mean, there were product spanning across consumer and enterprise. There were offices all over the world, there were jobs in every business function imaginable. And so as someone starting off fresh in the working world, all of those options and experiences were just different possibilities for me, which was really exciting. Um, so I've been at Microsoft, as I said now for six years, I've worked on three different teams.

Rakhi Voria: I started in a licensing role, then I moved to a business development role supporting the financing organization. Um, and today I'm a chief of staff to our corporate vice president of inside sales, which has been a lot of fun because it's an exciting part of the company. It's pretty much a brand new organization. I was one of the first employees two years ago and now we have 1800 people globally across eight different sales center, so it's been an amazing experience for me as someone who's relatively new to the workforce to be part of building something new and having the chance to see all the nuts and bolts of running a business.

Amanda Hammett: That's awesome. That's been a really major build that you guys have done and I've been really impressed kind of watching from the outside what you've done. So on top of everything else that you're doing at Microsoft, you also have some side hustles that you're doing, so why don't you tell us a little bit about that?

Rakhi Voria: Yes. In addition to my day, I'm. The first is I coach here, the women at Microsoft board, which is basically our company wide women's organization here, which is focused around attracting, advancing and retaining women. I'm super passionate about advancing women in business. It's been a common theme throughout my life. I grew up with my single mom. I spent time in India during my undergraduate, um, researching on women's empowerment for my college thesis. I wrote my master's dissertation on Female Employment Policies in China and India. So basically leading women at Microsoft has been a great way for me to continue exercising that passion internally at Microsoft, but it's also given me a really great platform to create connections across different companies to help move the needle for women. So that's the first one. My second side hustle, I guess as I write regular articles for Forbes, I'm, I'm a member of the Forbes Business Development Council. And so as part of that I provide some quotes and expertise on sales and business development topics and I also have the opportunity to write my own articles. So if you look up you'll see that they're primarily focused on actually tips for millennials and for women. And so it's been a lot of fun. I encourage people to read and comment and share.

Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. Absolutely. I actually, I shared one of your latest articles about why more women need to get into sales on my linkedin profile and I had, uh, several young women that I mentor or that I've met throughout the years, reach out to me and say, Hey, can we talk about this? And I'm like, yes we can. So thank you for spring that conversation. That's awesome. So, all right, you walked us through kind of high level your background. So tell us a little bit about what's worked for you throughout your career so far.

Rakhi Voria: I would say that there are probably three specific things that come to mind here. I think number one, one of the first things that's worked for me is I work for a company that doesn't require me to leave my passions at home. You just heard a little bit about what some of those are. It's a advancing women and millennials. It's writing and as you heard, I've found ways to be able to do those things in addition to my day job, both inside and outside of Microsoft. And I've also had managers who have supported these efforts and I think that's something that's really important to millennials because unlike previous generations who wanted work life balance and the separation, millennials actually want work life integration. We want to bring our whole self to work. We want to have personal relationships with our coworkers. We want to share our passions in the workplace.

Rakhi Voria: So I think it's really important for companies to find ways to foster an environment that's really conducive to that. Um, the second thing that I would say is, um, I think what's worked well for me is I haven't been shy to kind of leverage my unique qualities and use them to my advantage when I first entered the workforce. Actually, there were certain people who told me, you know, maybe you should hide your age to gain credibility, um, you know, act like a man because technology is such a male dominated field. And I sort of asked myself why, what's so bad about being younger? What's so bad about being a woman? I mean, I think, in fact, those qualities actually have helped me contribute even more at work. Um, so I, I think that, you know, as a millennial who's relatively new to the workforce, I actually offer a really fresh perspective that allows me to change the business and look at things differently and that's what I've done over the past six years at Microsoft.

Rakhi Voria: In fact, we actually started a cross generation mentoring program which we proactively pair of millennials, what senior leaders for this very reason and we've all heard the statistics that millennials are going to make up 50 percent of the workforce in the next two years. So I think it's about time we start to really understand what are some of the millennials strengths around being well connected and tech savvy and energetic. And then I guess the last thing that I would say that's worked well for me. I think it's all about being really proactive in learning the jobs that I've had. Networking, building my brand. I think in my first year at Microsoft I did probably a hundred different informational meetings with people, so probably one to two meetings with different people every week. And I just wanted to learn more about what do they do on a day to day basis and what's their background and walk me through your career development and not only did I learn from those meetings, but um, it really helped me get a chance to meet with a lot of different people across different parts of the company in the world. And those are relationships that I've definitely leveraged as I've sort of continued in my career path. So I always encourage people that I mentor, um, be really proactive and get out there because it's super easy to stay siloed within your organization. But it's way better for the long run if you kind of take the initiative.

Amanda Hammett: That's great. Well, I can just speak from my experience with you is that you have, you and I have been involved with the same organization that's international and you have leverage that and you are incredibly networked within that organization. And when I first came into it everybody was like, Oh, have you met rocky? And I'm like, I haven't, but I. But your, your reputation preceded you things. So, um, obviously you talked a lot about some things that have worked for you. I would imagine there might have been a bumper to in the road so far these six years in. Tell us about that.

Rakhi Voria: Definitely. Um, you know, I would have to say that I think what hasn't worked for me actually is saying yes to everything. So millennials we're known for seizing opportunities, right? So I would definitely say that I was like that earlier on in my career and I still am. But back then I would say yes to everything. If there was a stretch project and the organization, I would raise my hand for that. Uh, if the team needed volunteers for a special assignment, I will raise my hand for that. So I was just super eager I think, and I wanted to get involved in everything so I could learn as much as I could and be someone who was known to be willing to do anything to help contribute to them. And then I suddenly saw myself getting pulled into everything and I got some really good coaching for my manager at the time, about a year working into Microsoft and he told me, look Rakhi, when you're doing a good job, everybody is gonna want you to help and to be on your team like you've proven yourself now you get to decide what you take on the really strategic about the give get.

Rakhi Voria: And you know, if someone asks you to do something it's okay to first say, what am I going to get out of this? Or at least think through it. Right? So this coaching is something that I am so thankful for it. I think about it even today because you know, he was right. I mean now I'm not, I'm not saying if you're a millennial, 60 days into role, if your manager asks you to do something you should say, what am I going to get out of it? I mean, you definitely need to use your judgment, but I think his principal, right? And I wish I had kind of learned that a little bit earlier because you know, it would help me be a little bit more focused and understand where I was spending my time and put it in the right efforts.

Amanda Hammett: Oh, that is such good advice. I mean, I think that there are some people further along in their careers that could use that advice. So. Fantastic. Alright. So you mentioned a little bit about this particular manager and how he, he saw you potentially struggling a little bit and so he helped you through that. Were there other, any, any other mentors or managers that you've had that have helped you or have done anything in particular that really keeps you engaged and motivated and ready to wake up every day regardless of what country you're in saying, all right, let's, let's move Microsoft forward.

Rakhi Voria: I mean, as it relates to your question around mentors, for me, I've definitely surrounded myself with a really solid set of mentors. I kind of have a board of advisors that I call them, consists of a mix of people. Of course it's my formal manager, but then it's also a set of executives across the company who I look to for career advice or peers that I looked to for on the job advice or some days it's my mom who grew up in a very different world and started her own business or a friend and a completely different industry to provide just a completely new and different perspective. So I can't stress the importance of having all of these people, I guess, in your inner circle to guide, provide counsel as you navigate through some of the stumbling blocks. Um, one thing in particular actually that's been really valuable to me over the past year is having a formal executive coach.

Rakhi Voria: So about a year ago, um, Microsoft invested in me having an external coach. So this is a professional who is trained in coaching. I'm emerging and senior leaders and it's made a pretty impact I'd say on me because my coach has so much experience just helping people negotiate, communicate at the highest level. So, um, you know, since working with her I've been promoted, I've moved into people manager role and I think part of it it's just she's really helped me have the right conversations with my manager in order to make these things happen and you know, it's great to have a variety of mentors in your life that this is actually the first time I've had a formal like external coach and it's been really valuable to have someone with an outside perspective and also the formal training to help me navigate through some of these issues and challenges.

Amanda Hammett: That is fantastic. I have a bunch of questions that I'm just like, oh, which one do I go to first? Okay. So let me, let me circle back for a second before I go to your executive coach. Let me circle back to your board of advisors that you mentioned a few obvious people like your mom and, and, and people like that. Um, but what about the people within your, within Microsoft that are senior leaders, how did you approach them to walk us through what that looked like and how did you put this together?

Rakhi Voria: Yeah, definitely. I mean I would say that I just sort of reached out to people really if there's a funny story that my first boss always likes to tell, he's like rocky's not afraid to ask anybody for time because when I was at Microsoft when my first week I actually ran into our chief marketing officer, like literally physically ran out into each other, walking out of the bathroom, just randomly struck up a conversation. He was extremely kind and welcoming, knowing that it was my first week at the company and at the end of it, you know, he kind of said, well, if you want to chat about anything or need any advice, feel free to reach out any time. And I'm sure that was just sort of like a nice blanket thing that he says to anyone. But I said, well, he offered me his time, so why don't I just reach out to him?

Rakhi Voria: So I did. I sent him a note and I said, you know, thanks so much for the quick chat. I would love to pick your brain. As I'm new to the company. I want to learn a little bit more about how I can make an immediate impact and get your coaching since you've navigated well through your career. Would you mind if I grab 30 minutes of your time? And he said absolutely. Yeah. And I think it's just, it's a funny story because I mean like wide eyed millennial. I didn't even think like, oh, this guy is our chief marketing officer. He's totally out of reach. I just thought, you know, this is someone who's clearly spent some time, I'm investing in others and it sounds like he's open to a conversation. So why not seize the opportunity? And I think that's one of the things that I've just sort of done along the way as I mentioned, being proactive. I mean, um, it, it definitely, I've definitely noticed there are a lot of people at Microsoft who are very willing to give you their time and people outside of Microsoft to all you have to do is ask. And I don't think I've ever been told no to a meeting. So I've really encouraged. A lot of people just don't be afraid. Take the risk, ask them for a meeting if they say no, whatever, they're probably not going to remember you anyways, but at least you tried.

Amanda Hammett: That is such great advice. I that. I love that. I love that. I, I do hear a lot, especially when I'm on college campuses and I'm talking to students about, hey, you know, why don't you set up some informational interviews, you know, as you're, as you're getting going, oh, I don't know. I don't know, and I'm like, you need to this, this will help you. I promise. So I thank you. I'm gonna. Take that, snip it out. Not going to send it to me.

Rakhi Voria: Absolutely.

Amanda Hammett: So tell us a little bit about the culture within. I'm Microsoft, I'm obviously everybody hears all the stories and reads the articles, but tell us a little bit about the culture within Microsoft as a whole, but also I'd like to hear a little bit about the, the interesting culture or subculture that your particular team has.

Rakhi Voria: Definitely think there are a couple of. There are a couple things that probably come to mind here. For me, as I think about Microsoft first, Microsoft is a really great job of reminding me that what we're doing is truly changing the world and that's really important to me and most millennials because we really want to make a difference. There was a recent study by a group called the intelligent group. They focus on youth preferences and it showed that 64 percent of millennials say it's a priority to make the world a better place. So, um, it's definitely something that I thought about is I was exploring company is straight after graduate school and I wanted to work at a company that was changing the world and I saw that Microsoft was technology. So I think it's really important for companies to, to really tie their mission, I guess, to societal contribution and for managers to constantly remind millennials that the work that they're doing actually ties to something that is making a difference.

Rakhi Voria: So that's one of the things I've really enjoyed about Microsoft. I think the other thing I would say is, is really variety that I think has kept me engaged. Um, as I mentioned earlier, I targeted a job at a company like Microsoft because I wasn't exactly sure what I wanted to do and Microsoft offered a plethora of options and experiences and uh, when I first started here I very quickly threw out the idea of a career ladder and I instead focused on gaining a set of skills and experiences that I think would set me up for the long run. Um, and so as I mentioned, I've been able to differentiate my experiences by having rules and sales and business development and finance and I've sort of almost been able to create kind of like a liberal arts experience for myself here at Microsoft and sort of a portfolio career I guess.

Rakhi Voria: But you know, millennials, a lot of people refer to us as the job hopping generation. And I think just having this type of environment where variety is offered is really important to us because we want to take on new challenges. We sometimes want to take on horizontal challenges but still grow vertically at the same time. And Microsoft has done a great job of kind of allowing me to do that. And it's really interesting because I think as I think about some of the previous generations, a lot of people just sort of chose a career path and they work their way up, but that's not really of interest to most millennials, I'd say. I think we'd want to differentiate our experiences, we want to try new things, develop new skills, and Microsoft has really fostered a culture. I've been able to do all of those things.

Amanda Hammett: That's awesome. So talk a little bit now about your particular team and what you guys have built.

Rakhi Voria: Yeah. So inside sales, as I mentioned, it's a brand new organization at Microsoft. Um, much of our workforce is actually millennial. Much of our workforce is also senior, so we have a pretty diverse mix of people all over the world. Uh, I think what's unique about inside sales actually is that 70 percent of our organization was hired as externally. Um, so we had just an amazing opportunity to really build a culture from scratch by taking all of these experiences from people who have worked at some of the best companies in the industry, bringing them here, taking some talent who have been at Microsoft for a long time and then thinking through like, what do we want to do with all of that and how are we going to build the right culture? And um, fortunately I work for a leader who's really passionate about this topic as well.

Rakhi Voria: And so, um, we spend a lot of time thinking through how are we making inside sales the best place to work and grow. And we have a lot of people related initiatives, many of which I actually lead myself. So I started a group called the people first ambassadors where we have basically different inside sellers and managers all over the world who are representing the voice of inside sales. And like I said, just making it a better place to work and grow by developing different initiatives and plans and programs and offering different perks and experiences. But it's been really amazing because I think I'm,

Rakhi Voria: I think it could have gone one of two ways. Um, you know, you hire all these people and you don't give them the right infrastructure. Support may not pan out as you would have liked, but I've had the chance to go to all eight of our sales centers over the past six to eight months and I can definitely say that the culture is the same everywhere. And I think part of that it's just really intentional about it, which is exciting,

Amanda Hammett: but is that, is very exciting. You know, one of the things that I would love for you to share, and this is, um, for other companies that are looking to build, even if it's not inside sales, another, a new division or they're looking to start their culture over from scratch. One of the things that I really appreciated is that you guys had a major focus on diversity and even when you were told, oh no, that can't be done. You guys didn't take no for an answer. So can you walk us through a little bit of that?

Rakhi Voria: Yes, absolutely. So, um, you know, obviously when you're hiring 1800 people at scale, there are tradeoffs that you used. Supposedly captive diversity was not one of them. For us, it's, it's really important and I think there were challenges definitely along the way. I mean, but our goal was to have 50 diversity within inside sales. Now we're not there 100 percent across the globe, but there actually are places like in Asia where more than 50 percent is email as an example. And Asia in particular is actually a really challenging place to hire talent for tech and that are female. And so we've been really proud of some of the work that we've done and the culture that we foster. But I think part of that is just pushing her to have, have that conversation. I mean, I think there were definitely times, as you said, where people said, well, the talent pool isn't there, and the reality is it is there.

Rakhi Voria: We just have to make more of an effort and there are things that you need to do in order to do that. So specifically for women as an example, we've all heard the statistics that, uh, you know, I think it was by IBM, they did a report a few years ago, they said that women only apply for the job when they meet 100 percent of the qualifications, whereas men apply for the job when they think they meet 60 percent. And so we need to be really thoughtful about the language that we're using in job descriptions. Even for inside sales team. I mean, you know, do we want to use words like Hungary and competitive and, and things like that, or do we want to use kind of a more softer language that my cater to more women. Um, so those are the things that we've had to be really thoughtful about just to widen the pool as much as possible and push our hr teams to lead to this outcome.

Amanda Hammett: That's awesome. I love that story. That's one of my favorite stories because not only did you guys hit enormous numbers and just hiring over a very short amount of time, but you guys did it in a very thoughtful way, which is usually okay. So I, I'm perfectly appreciate that. Um, so for our younger audience members, is there anything that you think made you stand out in the applicant pool back six years ago when you're fresh out of grads? What was it about you that made you a rockstar on, on resume paper?

Rakhi Voria: I think part of it was just demonstrating a track record of success. I mean the reality is most millennials are not going to have the previous experience that employers are looking for. So I think we instead just need to show that our past experience, whatever it may be, whether it was sports, whether it was internships, whatever, that all of those results were actually the same regardless of what the task was at hand, that we were able to demonstrate success, see things through. And I think that's what I did. I mean I had never worked at a major tech company, but I had some great internships across various industries. I performed well academically. I want full rights to school. I mean, I think all of those things kind of collectively, hopefully showed Microsoft that I was someone who was willing to learn who had somewhat of an aptitude to be successful. Um, provided I was given the right training and skills development opportunities. So yeah, that's what I. Fantastic.

Amanda Hammett: So is there anything that you wish other companies knew about hiring millennials? Is there anything that you, you hear complaints about or is there anything you just, you just wish the thing new?

Rakhi Voria: Yeah. You know, I think the first one I would say is don't underestimate the importance of giving some of your younger millennial employees flexibility. Millennials really want flexibility in how, where and when we work. I mean there was actually a really great millennial study that Deloitte put out last year which shows that 75 percent of millennials, they want the ability to work from home or somewhere other than the office and they think that that's where they can unleash more creativity. And the study actually found that in most markets, worklife balance came before career progression when evaluating job opportunities. So we shouldn't underestimate how important a flexible lifestyle is for this generation. I think the other thing that I might add is like, we hear a lot about these whole employee perks and I think that's a really funny topic because people always say all millennials, they want Free Food and candy and bean bags and nap pods.

Rakhi Voria: Otherwise they're not going to be happy. And I think those things are all great, but there's actually no formal data that shows that's enough to retain your millennial employees. Right? And I think it's kind of a generalization that's been driven by movies like the internship and stuff like that. And um, for me, the number one thing that I've seen personally as a millennial and then also through a lot of our millennial workforce here at Microsoft is they want to have differentiated experiences, which I talked about a little bit ago, but I think companies that win with millennials are those that offer experiences. So, um, as an example, the topic of how millennials are approaching business travel has become really prevalent recently. So I'm, you know, I'm definitely one of those people, but in that same deloitte study, actually it said that 78 percent of millennials intentionally carve out personal time during a business trip. I do that myself. I mean, I think in the five continents and 20 countries over the past time that I've been at Microsoft, but um, I'm always looking to turn those business vacations into workstations I guess, because I think it makes my trips more balanced and memorable. Um, so I think those are some, some things that a lot of people probably don't really know about when they think about millennials, but I would encourage people to look at that. Deloitte study actually their whole. Yeah,

Amanda Hammett: that is a great study. That was actually one of my, one of my favorites. Um, so. All right. Is there anything, just one last thing, is there anything that you think that you wish the company did to make it make the hiring process easier for millennials in particular?

Rakhi Voria: here are two things that come to mind for this. The first one was what I mentioned earlier, it's just being more cognizant of the language that's used on job descriptions. Most job descriptions say that you need two to five years of experience, even jobs that are targeted actually toward university and graduate higher. Say this for some reason. I think it's just standard verbiage that's often included, but a lot of people take those job requirements quite literally and they hold themselves back unfortunately because they don't think they'll be considered. And as I mentioned earlier, women in particular have that issue. So you compound, you know, being a woman and being a millennial, that's a whole pool of really great talent that you might miss out on if you're not being thoughtful about the language and the job descriptions. The second thing that I would mention is, um, you know, I would love to see more bigger company is targeting smaller schools actually as they think about university hires.

Rakhi Voria: Unfortunately, a lot of the big companies like the big tech firms, procter and gamble and Mckinsey, et Cetera, they target some of the tier one school. So Basically Ivy Leagues and Great Liberal Arts Colleges including the college that I went to for Undergrad that unfortunately those students don't really get access to some of those top tier companies. And so I, uh, it's a conversation I've even had internally with some of our Microsoft hr teams because I think we needed to be a little bit more open minded and thoughtful about how we're recruiting so that we're not missing out on a great talent pool.

Amanda Hammett: I agree. I could not agree with that more. I love it. I also went to a small liberal arts college. I hear you. I completely hear you. And I have those conversations a lot as well with company. So. Well rocky, this has been fantastic. I mean you are just, I mean I already knew you were a rock star, but now everyone else will get to see that you're a rockstar. So thank you so much for being here and thank you so much for bringing so much knowledge and passion to this interview.

Rakhi Voria: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Amanda Hammett: Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the millennial Rockstar podcast. If you are looking for even more information on millennials and some free resources, visit my website at AmandaHammett.com. The link is below. It's AmandaHammett.com. There you can download a free millennial employee engagement guide that will give you all kinds of tips and tricks on how to keep those millennials engaged on a day to day basis because we all know that millennials who are happy at work are more productive at work.