Win(e)d Down Wednesday Podcast with Jeffery Tobias Halter and Amanda Hammett

What Deloitte Transparency Study Says About DEI Today – Jeffery Tobias Halter

Welcome to Win(e)d Down Wednesdays with gender strategist Jeffery Tobias Halter and generational strategist Amanda Hammett -- a podcast that focuses on diversity, inclusion, intersectionality and equity through the lenses of a Boomer and a Millennial. They delve into DEI topics, examining business implications, talent strategy, and what today’s senior leaders need to know in order to recruit, retain and develop the next generation. In this episode, the hosts continue their conversation about the recent Deloitte Transparency Study. They delve into the findings that highlight the need for accountability to ensure the success of corporate DEI initiatives and how to effectively engage men as allies and advocates.

Link for Deloitte Transparency Study -

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Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.

The Transcript - Deloitte Transparency Study

Amanda Hammett: I'm Amanda Hammett and welcome to Wine Down Wednesday, a contemporary mid-week discussion on current workplace and marketplace issues with a focus on diversity, inclusion, intersectionality, and equality, and it's always best enjoyed with your favorite wine down beverage of choice. Now as you join us today, we want to remind you that Jeffery and I only reflect a very small spectrum of the diversity realm. In future episodes, we will have a series of guests joining us in which we'll talk about everything, including the unique challenges faced by women of color in the workplace, ageism to issues affecting the LGBTQ workers and a number of other dimensions of diversity.
Jeffery Tobias Halter: We also want to hear about what you want to hear about in the future. So please drop us a line and let us know what some of your challenges are. Also, we're going to talk about some potentially emotional issues. Our goal each show is to discuss these in a calm and respectful way. You don't need anyone screaming at you about the challenges of work today. We get it. You have enough stress in your life. Hence the theme: Wine(d) down Wednesday. And so this Wine Down Wednesday, I'm choosing to enjoy a nice Cabernet Sauvignon from the Napa Valley. Amanda, you already showed yours. What's your beverage of choice?

Amanda Hammett: I am having a Blue Moon, my favorite beer. So our show today is going to focus specifically on advancing women in the workplace and the need for greater male advocacy. So we also want to continue to examine transparency as a key factor in advancing women. So Jeffery, your focus is on engaging men in women's leadership advancement. Talk about why you chose to focus in this area.

Jeffery Tobias Halter: Yeah, Amanda, thank you. You know, it's interesting. If you think about corporate America, men still comprise 80% of the leadership in most companies. And so I have a belief that if we are 80% of the population, we could be 80% of the problem and not advancing women, but we could also be 80% of the solution. And so what I spend my days doing is working with men who want to become better, organizations who want to become better. And they realize that active male advocacy is the key to driving long-term change, you know, women and other underrepresented groups have been talking about advancing diversity for 40 years and, and really engaging men and specifically guys like me -- older, white men -- are one of the key solutions.

Amanda Hammett: So how do you start to find men who want to be advocates?

Jeffery Tobias Halter: Yeah, this is really fascinating, um, you know who they are. They're the men in your organization who want to help. And they may not be overt about it. They're the good guys. They're the people who are already mentoring or sponsoring or having a woman's back, just having you on a project team or inviting you in. I call them “ready now” men. And my belief is that 30 to 40% of men in the workplace want to help. But they need to be invited in. It's not a place most men are ready to go to. And then it becomes a brand adoption model. If we get 30 to 40%, then you might get another 50% who want to help and they'll come along. They understand the business reason. If they understand why this is important to them. And then I want to be very clear because we've left out about 10% of the people. And what I'm going to tell you is that 10% of people will never get this topic. They won't understand why we're talking about it. And it seems in corporate America that we focus on this lowest common denominator. My belief is if you have an organization that embraces inclusion and equity, people who don't share that view are going to work their way out of your company. So let's not train idiots. I've been doing this work for a long time. I'm not an idiot whisperer. Go and find “ready now” men who want to help, and let's invite them in.

Amanda Hammett: That's fantastic, I love your boldness there. What are the barriers and the solutions for men in wanting to engage in this work?
Jeffery Tobias Halter: Yeah. What I've found in doing this work is there’s organizational barriers. Right? And, and, you know, that's hiring and slating and succession planning. I'm going to put those aside for right now and talk about what I have found to be the four barriers around engaging men to become advocates. The first one is simply a lack of empathy. Many men don't believe that men and women are having a different experience in the workplace. They get it a little. But they really haven't internalized it. You know, empathy is kind of challenging for men. I don't want to gender that, but you know, women tend to be more empathetic than men. Um, and so a lot of men will just say, yeah, I understand it, but it's not that big a deal, right? Yeah. The second one then is apathy. What's the big deal? We've been talking about this for 40 years. There's no change on the horizon. And, and quite frankly, if this was important, my boss would talk about it. My company would talk about it. We'd have a staff meeting once a month. All we ever talk about is sales and profit and turnover, but do we really talk about it? And, and oh by the way, if leaders aren't talking about it, we talked in another episode about how, if frontline managers are not talking about it, why should I care? So apathy is the second barrier. Lack of accountability. You know, the Deloitte report demonstrates this and this chart shows what Deloitte looks like top to bottom and we see actually a pretty good picture at a board level on a senior leadership level. But as you get down in the organization, you know what the numbers are 70, 30, oh, by the way, that's pretty good. Compared to most companies, Deloitte’s, you know, going to show that. The other thing they're showing us customer facing roles, and this is where we get into. It's so important to have a diverse sales force, a diverse customer force, to meet the needs of the customer you’re servicing. Hmm. And so accountability, lack of accountability is a big one. Then the last one, quite frankly, is just fear. Men are scared to death that we will say or do the wrong thing. And, and, you know, part of that is #MeToo. Part of that is I'm not ready to have a conversation around race. I'm certainly not ready to give feedback to women of color. And so as a white man, I can have a really long career by kind of giving this diversity thing a wink and a nod and choosing not to do anything about it. I'll just go along. But at the core of it, I'm afraid. So lack of empathy, apathy, lack of accountability and fear. All right.

Amanda Hammett: Yep.

Jeffery Tobias Halter: And so those are the barriers.

Amanda Hammett: I could not agree with you more on that. You know, what I find in the diversity and inclusion world is that we spend a lot of time talking academically and not really talking about what we are, how does that look in everybody's day-to-day life? And so what I would love to hear from you is what would be an easy, easy first step for companies to get started in identifying those ready now, advocates that you talked about earlier.

Jeffery Tobias Halter: Yeah, it's funny. And this is not the answer that your listeners are going to want. It's not easy. It's not easy. Right? What I’ll share with you though is an, is an acronym that I've found works, and it's called listen, learn, lead, and have the will. And each of these aligns to one of the barriers that I identified. The most important thing we want all of our listeners to do is one thing. And that's, listen, go have a conversation with a woman or a person of color or somebody unlike you, and then ask the simple question. Are you having a different experience than I am? And I'm going to tell you. We'll call her Terri. Terri is not going to say anything. Terri doesn't want to represent all women at the company. Ask a second time. Is there something I don't understand? Terri will start to talk, don't interrupt her and don't say, Hey, you know, we've got a program for that. Or have you thought about this? Listen and then ask a third time. And in that last 10 minutes, you're going to hear root cause issues that Terri has experienced that you had no idea occurred, and you're going to start to develop empathy. So if there is one easy step, it's to go out and talk to people, but it's got to go a little further then. So to overcome apathy people have to learn, you know, one of the reasons for this show we're going to share with listeners so much data and so much research, and it seems really dry. I mean to tell you, if you want to engage men, they love that stuff. They love facts and data, and that's going to help you to overcome the apathy. You know, in future shows, we're going to talk about women as consumers and drivers of 85% of the B2C economy. What's your local business case? What's keeping you up at night? To overcome accountability or lack of accountability, you’ve got to lead and I'll share a story I've heard dozens of times. It's a senior leadership team who wants to support diversity inclusion and a job comes open and there are no ready now women or people of color or other represented groups on the slate. And the senior leader goes, why don't we have any? And another senior leader just felt well, we don't have any. You know, we just don't have any ready. They're just not there. They're not in the pipeline. And sadly, most senior leaders will say, yeah, I get it. When in fact leaders need to say, that's not acceptable. The next time this job comes open, I want to see a slate of candidates. Jim, I want to know what you're doing to train people unlike you. Amanda, this is what senior leaders do. They ask tough questions and people go and do stuff.

Amanda Hammett: Yep.

Jeffery Tobias Halter: And so it's just one more question. What are you doing to get some ready? And then to overcome fear in doing this work, I've found the real key is you have to have the will. And this comes with advocacy of anything, you know, whether it's diet or exercise, what's your due north at the end of the day. And what I have found is that most men never make a connection. That if I'm not advocating for women or other underrepresented groups today, I'm hurting the people in my life. I'm hurting my mother, I'm hurting my wife or significant other, I'm hurting my daughter. I'm hurting my friends and colleagues. And the simple fact is most men never make the connection between our daily actions and holding others back. And this really flies in the face of everything you might think. You know, and I use myself in this, you know, I had a long successful business career, but it never dawned on me that if I wasn't advocating for gender equity, my daughter, who I ensured went to a great school, got a great education, is going to come out and make 85 cents to my son. And is going to deal with the same issues and biases that you know, other women have to. And so the way you overcome fear simply to have the will and you asked for a simple solution, you know, that's the 601,have the will. But first go out, have a conversation and just listen.

Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. You know, those conversations are key. I think when you can start developing that empathy, that can drive so many other things. I've heard so many stories in the past year of leaders who had never had real conversations about race with people, with employees that have been working with them for 10 years. Yeah. And all of a sudden they saw things in a different light. I had another leader that I've worked with for a long time, and he's a huge advocate for women in the workplace. And when I got down to his story on why, what drove him, it was really interesting. He told me about, uh, his mother. She had been a single mom raising two boys. And when he got to corporate America, he had heard all the stories that she had worked with and dealt with over those years. Not getting promoted or not getting a raise, not, you know, making anywhere near what her colleagues were making. And you better believe when he got into any kind of leadership role, that was not the case with the women that were on his team. He was a strong advocate, so wonderful. You know, Jeffery, this has been really awesome and amazing. And I love the different points and the ready now. And I think that men and women can walk away from this episode with some really phenomenal things. So thank you. All right, you guys, that is our show for today. Thank you for joining us. And we would love to hear from you. You can leave a message for me. Amanda Hammett on Linkedin, or you can find me on my website, and you can shoot us your suggestions for topics or even guests.

Jeffery Tobias Halter: And I'm Jeffery Tobias Halter ( Again, thanks for joining us. Go take a deep breath, relax a little, it's Wednesday. You're going to make it through. And we're here to help you. So on behalf of Amanda and I, thank you very much for joining us.

Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.

Win(e)d Down Wednesday Podcast with Jeffery Tobias Halter and Amanda Hammett

What Deloitte Transparency Study Says About DEI Today – Amanda Hammett

"Welcome to Win(e)d Down Wednesday with gender strategist Jeffery Tobias Halter and generational strategist Amanda Hammett -- a podcast that focuses on diversity, inclusion, intersectionality and equity through the lenses of a Boomer and a Millennial. In each episode, they delve into DEI topics, examining business implications, talent strategy, and what today’s senior leaders need to know in order to recruit, retain and develop the next generation. This week, they discuss the recent Deloitte Transparency Study and key takeaways regarding millennials, Gen Z, remote work and social justice in the workplace.

Link for Deloitte Transparency Study -"

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Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.

The Transcript - Deloitte Transparency Study

Jeffery Tobias Halter: So today I'm enjoying a nice French dry rosé.help you relax, reflect, and deal with some of the challenges we know you're facing. Our show will focus on diversity, inclusion, intersectionality, and equality through the lens of a boomer and a millennial. Amanda, what's your beverage of choice today, and tell our listeners a little bit about who you are and why you're known as the “millennial translator”.

Amanda Hammett: Well, thank you, Jeffery. So today, being the good millennial that I am. I am drinking kombucha. My favorite flavor happens to be a raspberry hibiscus, which I drink regularly. It's stocked in my fridge all the time. Professionally I’m known as the millennial translator. What I really am as a generational strategist, I help companies figure out how to recruit, retain, and develop that next generation of leadership. So we're focusing on millennials and Gen Z. And how do we communicate? How do we bridge those gaps between communication and leadership skills? So that is what I do. And that is all about me, but different. What are we talking about today?

Jeffery Tobias Halter: Yeah. Um, well, we want to get into is kind of my lens and my role in this and how we're gonna interact today. Um, so my day job, I'm a gender strategist. And so I work with Fortune 500 companies and I actually use gender as a gateway to start to have deeper conversations because I've been a diversity professional for 20 years. And when I find it. It's very hard to jump in with elements like race or multiculturalism. So my company is focused on using gender as a gateway, but I'd call it gender plus. And what do we mean by that? That said, we're going to talk about gender, but then we're going to talk about millennials and this intersection because my belief is you need to go out and talk to other people about this. Particularly, people like me -- old white guys. And so we want to start conversations with all of you and give you tips and tools to go forward. And so our focus today is going to be me talking to Amanda about some recent research that's come to light.. but it jumped into this. Deloitte recently published its transparency report. it's a big consulting house. They've been a leader in diversity for over twenty-five years. And this is the first time a company of their size has actually published what their company looks like. And the demographics are fascinating. And this really started the purpose of our conversation and why I started talking to Amanda. Amanda. tell us about our first conversation. Recap that for the listeners.

Amanda Hammett: Well, our first conversation was just a recap of 2020 and project updates and really everything that happened in 2020. It was a year of a lot of change in the workplace, obviously. COVID-19 was a massive disruptor to the way that we've always worked. But then as we moved into the spring and summer, we started seeing a lot of issues with racial and social injustice coming to light, and the world seemed to be on fire. And it was really interesting how those fires, globally, were playing out in the workplace And so you and I were just there to talk about it and we're really like, we have a lot to say, maybe we should share this with an audience.

Jeffery Tobias Halter: And so, examining the Deloitte report, you've got this slide and, we can share this information with you. One of the things Amanda and I want to do every week is give you tools to take back to your company, in order to start conversations. And today we're going to focus on millennials at Deloitte. And this is so rare that you get a company this size, that number one says, we want to do the right thing. We want to demonstrate transparency, which is at the core of advancing all types of people, all groups, all underrepresented groups, but Deloitte has some really unique policies. If you, if you're a senior partner mandate, if you're not a senior partner, mandatory retirement is 60. So they have one of the youngest, most dynamic workforces out there. And so this is where we're going to go. And we're going to explore this with Amanda. Because a significant portion of their workforce, upwards of 70% are millennial and Gen Z. This is our snapshot. So Amanda, let's get into this. As we begin to think about going back into the office, will we be going back in the office? what are the major concerns that you see for employees as they return?

Amanda Hammett: You know, Jeffery, I think that this is something, every company is wrestling with. Every company is releasing statements and talking about, you know, this move to a hybrid work environment or a move to completely move everybody back in. And there's, there's some frustration and there's some tension between employees and leadership. And, and how are we going to work this out? But for employees, they're really concerned about childcare, particularly in that, um, millennial gen X. age range. We're also talking about mental health. How are we going to address what happened in 2020 and moving forward? And we're also talking about safety, general safety How are we going to keep our employees safe? Are we going to require vaccinations to come back in? Are we going to require masks to come back in? What is this going to look like? All in the scope and lens of a hybrid world, what will it look like?

Jeffery Tobias Halter: And so. Dig into that just a little bit more. What does, what does the new normal look like?

Amanda Hammett: The new normal? That's a great question. You know, I keep I'm asked this a lot. But the answer's going to vary from company to company, even team to team, I'm working with some large Fortune 50 companies, and they're really making each team, each organization, each business unit make the call. They're not putting out a widespread, you know, blanket statement that everybody's back in or everybody's at home. They're making each team make that decision. And I think that that is going to be the best-case scenario. I think that's going to be the wisest course of action here because if you put out a blanket statement, there's, that’s going to cause some issues one way or the other, either the people that are pro-go-back-into-the-office or pro-stay-home, there's going to be some tension.

Jeffery Tobias Halter: You made a comment earlier that I want to build on. 2020 is a really tough year. And really for the first time, social justice issues are showing up in the workplace. Companies have to have a statement on Black Lives Matter, Asian hate crimes, a whole, a whole host of social issues hitting the business world. I want you to talk for a minute about the fact that having an answer for this is so critical to millennials that this isn't just some kind of check the box, but it's their heart and mind.

Amanda Hammett: I will tell you that as soon as companies started putting out statements after the death of George Floyd about supporting black lives matter, it was really interesting to watch the teams that I support, the young employees that I support, across the, across the spectrum. And it was very clear that they were watching, they saw the statements coming out by their companies, but the question was Great.
What are you going to do now?
How are you going to put this into practice?
And if you, as a leader, don't think that they're watching or that they have forgotten. I can guarantee you that they have not. Furthermore, beyond the current employees, you have the employees, the future employees, the ones who are going into the workplace in the next 6 or less months, even a year, they're watching as well. They're looking at the companies that they have been applying to, that they're being recruited into and they're asking, okay.
I saw your statement on social justice. How is this playing out? How are you actually putting this into practice?
Are you just putting words out?
Is this performative activism or is there actually some substance there?
I will put money on the table right now that there will be people in the next 12 to 18 months that say, okay, I gave you plenty of time. You've done nothing with your statement other than just make it I'm gone. I guarantee you that's gonna happen.

Jeffery Tobias Halter: Yeah. And it's really fascinating when you think about this, you know, today, even, even in a post COVID world, there's 11 million job openings today. During COVID millennials became the largest portion of the workforce over 50%. And so if companies aren't doing genuinely what they need to do. Um, people, millennials, Boomers are going to vote with their feet and say I'm going elsewhere.

Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. When you look specifically at the Deloitte information, you know, millennials are pushing for greater transparencies around how business is put into action. You mentioned that, do you think publishing data is the first step or what more can companies do? And another question is how do we get more companies to publish this data?

Amanda Hammett: Well, first of all, I applaud Deloitte.. You know, tremendously. Sometimes it is really difficult to look inward and see some of the numbers that are not where you want them to be. And then to put a spotlight on them. That is courage, that is leadership in the broader business community. So I applaud them for doing that, obviously. I mean, they're aware their numbers are not exactly where they'd like them to be. And, but the fact that. One they're measuring it. That to me is huge. What, what you want to change, you got to measure. So they're measuring it, they're watching it and they're doing it year over year. That's tremendous work. That is something that I would love to see them call some of their competitors, some other colleague companies to the carpet and say issue a challenge. I would love to see that I would love to see that, But, that being said Publishing data's not enough. There has to be hard work behind it. They've got to engage at all levels from the top down and the bottom up the bottom up is where I think a lot of companies miss out, they hear, oh, you know, in surveys, that's just those millennials complaining again. Or those Gen Z's are complaining again. You need to listen. They're talking to you and they're doing it openly. You need to listen to what they have to say and say, okay, this is our future. This is the profitability of our company on the line. We need to take this into account and start moving forward because the numbers in Deloitte, 70% millennials and Gen Zs, that's not something you can ignore. And I will tell you, it's not just Deloitte. I mean, they're millennials, we're already predicted millennials, and gen Z's were already predicted in 2020 to hit 50% over 50% of the workforce. But the way that the economy shook out it's even higher. I don't think the US labor US department of labor has put out like specific numbers yet, but from what I'm seeing, anecdotally. They're much higher than what they were expected to be. So companies have to start paying attention. They have to start making moves and they have to start saying, oh, they're whining. We can't, you know, we just need to get the work done, put our head down and get the work done now is the time to make some change.

Jeffery Tobias Halter: So thanks so much for sharing. Great thoughts. Great comments. As you kind of wrap up this, this millennial point of view on what's going on to. Uh, are there one or two more key actions that you think either companies need to take or, or quite frankly, employees need.

Amanda Hammett: Yeah, absolutely. As far as a company needs to take right now is the time to be really diving in and developing your frontline of leaders. I know that right now, it does not seem like it would be an obvious choice of times, but your frontline is where you make or break your young employee, your early in career. Experience those very frontlines. That's the person that they're interacting with. That's the person that is, you know, giving them the advice on the day-to-day that is the person that's helping them have either a phenomenal experience at an organization or one that they can't wait to leave. So really taking the time and making the investment in that frontline is critical to what you're doing moving forward. For employees Well, I applaud everyone, all the young millennials and who have been making their voices heard, keep doing that. You have power and the power is in your voice. So keep using it. That is going to change the world, the, both the business world and the greater good for all of us.

Jeffery Tobias Halter: That's amazing. Thank you so much for your comments. And now we're going to start to wrap up and figure out what next steps are for Win(e)d Down Wednesday.

Amanda Hammett: Absolutely

Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.

Win(e)d Down Wednesday Podcast with Jeffery Tobias Halter and Amanda Hammett

How are moms coping during the pandemic? Parenting Panel – Part II

For working parents, especially moms, COVID has been the great disrupter. Smriti Rao, Red Hat, and Jessie Wei, EY, join Win(e)d Down Wednesday hosts Jeffery Tobias Halter and Amanda Hammett for a candid conversation about their experiences at work and at home. In this episode we delve into pandemic parenting, returning to the office, and what working parents want their managers and senior leaders to know. Settle into your chair, pour your favorite beverage and join the conversation. You won’t want to miss a moment of these insights.

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Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.

The Transcript - Parenting Panel - Part II

Jeffery Tobias Halter: Amanda, I want to serve up to your wheelhousethis new normal, and, you know, millennials tend to be the parents right now, even though, you know, we all have children and obviously Zs are coming up, but you know, what are you hearing from your clients and colleagues about millennials and the new normal?

Amanda Hammett: Yes. So millennials and the new normal. Unfortunately I hear that term used in a very negative “oh those millennials” way. And I'd like to just put some things out there that I've noticed. It's not just millennials who are now really in a desirable position of workingfrom home. I have seen multiple senior leaders in the past month that have told me, you know, what, if I have to go back into the office, if it is mandatory, I'm either taking a retirement package or I'm going to go somewhere elseAnd these are senior leaders that are doing this. These are not necessarily millennials.So I think that we need to make sure that we're not placing negative blame on one group of people.This is the entire workforce.We need to be flexible for the entire workforce. What is going to work for each individual team? Like Jessie was saying. I think that's the ideal situation, but what I'm seeing is a lot of companies and what works at the top levelare trying to mandate from the top down may not work at the frontline level. And so there needs to be some flexibility. Now on the other side of that, I can see also I have concerns about my younger employees, that those early in careers, if they switch over to a fully hybrid model, I have some concerns about their development.Um, just because there are these micro coaching and training moments that happen, you know, at the water cooler, so to speak or as a, you know, more, you know, someone who's further along in their profession might walk by and hear you talking to a client over the phone and hey just next time, try this, or try that. Those little micro coaching moments can be pivotal in someone's career, and we're going to miss out on those. So we need to find a way to capture those moments. I don't know how it is or how it's done, but we do need to figure that out. So those are my two conflicting concerns on both sides.

Jeffery Tobias Halter: Yeah, I love that

Smriti Rao: I was just going to piggyback off of what you said, Amanda, which is those micro coaching moments and there's just being able to be in an environment where you can develop freely, especially if you're early in career. But I think also for someone, you know, it's like a mid-career professional like myself, um, I think what the office provides or what being around people provides is just a sense of camaraderie that it's hard to get that over the zoom calls or over WebEx calls only because it's so scheduled and then people want to get to work and they want to finish.Whereas, and, and you're only dealing with your team. If you're working in a cross-functional environment, you're dealing with themin a very professional cross-functional environment. There's really no safe space to make friendships or vent, or, maybe ask for advice in a way that is kind of beneficial to you professionally.I think the office provides those moments, which, I mean, I am a hundred percent work from home.I love it. Like, I just, I'm fine not going back to the office, but those are the thingsthat I personally miss.It's just those micro moments of just hanging out with people that, you know and you like.


I could not agree with that more.

Jeffery Tobias Halter: And the point I want to bring to this is back to our ongoing dialogue around diversity equity and intersectionality, and everyone is having a different experience. And I think that's the really key point for companies is there is no one new normal, and what I'm seeing is you've got one shot at this and you really need to get it right.And the sense of urgency needs to be there.There's 11 million open jobs. The economy is coming back.I loved Amanda's point, not just millennials, but Boomers, everyone is exercising their options to say, if this isn't going to work for me, I’m going to go somewhere else. There's 2 million job openings right now on LinkedIn.And so this is where this
conversation needs to shift from from company policy to culture, right?Cause you know, Jessie I loved your EY example and they are a trailblazer in DEI. There's other companies that have stated policies, but the culture's not there and it boils down to the individual manager.Right? So we have a formal flex policy.Everybody can abide by this.Oh, but if that individual manager is not allowing that to happen, people are going to opt out.People are just going to choose not to come back to the company. So we're getting onto about our last 10 minutes.We want to kind of segue into really hearing more about maybe people in your lives, the great experiences.I think it's interesting you had to solve the childcare issue and you were lucky enough to have mothers come in. So Jessie, I'm curious as a single parent going through the pandemic and building these infrastructures, you know, what would you say to other single parents to help them cope, to get through one more day or one piece of advice you would have for them.

Jessie Wei: That's a really great question. Jeffery is this challenging to be a single parent, working and having young kids or kids of all ages is a huge challenge.I personally, when I was a parent that was married or a single parent, now Icontinue to struggle with, which is one thing is gosh, asking for help.It takes a village to raise your kids.And culturally, I am Asian descent, Chinese born and raised. I migrated to the US so culturally it is very different. We don't ask for help.We only kind of try to reach out to families, but through this process, working together, joined a Facebook group of single parents and having other parents to help.We arrange, ask your neighbors for help.Ask your family to help.You cannot do this alone.I am very fortunate that I have a really great co-parenting relationship with the boys’ dad, he's in IT.So he doesn't have so many calls during the day as I have in my role at work. So if I have a very important meeting or a very busy day, sometimes I'll call him and see Whether I can drop the boys off at his house so that they can be there and he can take a few hours with them and we just swap.I think we have to remain flexible and not be afraid to ask for help. I've had friends that are also single parents, very close friends, and I have offered to help.Hey, why don't you bring your kids over?And we'll have all the kids have a little playdate and they'll keep each other busy.I am not bothered by the noise in my house. So if you have some errands to run, right, you gotta get a doctor, you got to take care of certain things or you have to go into work for whatever. I'm happy to look after your kids.And I think it’s asking for help.And also if you see your friends needing help, it's offering that help.

Amanda Hammett: Yes, offering that help. That is something that I've seen that we need to do as a community of parents. We need to be more willing to not judge, but just go in and Hey, how can I help you? What do you need? What can I do for you right now? So, yeah. Great point.

Jeffery Tobias Halter:I wanna build on that just for a second. There's some recent McKinsey research that came outthat just said, women areburnt out women. You know what? It's been over a year and they're tired and they're opting out and they don't feelthey're fulfilling themselves at work. They're not a great boss. They're not a great parent. What advice would you give women?and parents in general, just to get through one or two more days and, and stay engaged. And Smirti I'll go over to you.

Smriti Rao: Oh my God. I think the only thing that I would tell other womenis just give yourself a break.You don't have to be perfect.You don't have to have perfect children.Your children don't need to get likeperfect grades, be great at piano, violin. Just give yourself a break.If they're, especially if they're younger children.I do think that the pressure that we have culturally and just societally, it's like all my children are great.They're doing well in this pandemic.I would say focus on making sure that your children feel okay. mentally, like that's the only thing that I would sort of tell moms and dads.For child fine mentally, find those avenues for them to sort of let loose play if you're okayhanging out with other children, let them do that. But I think focusing onthings like even though it's virtual, you must get perfect grades.And even though we haven't done practice, you must be really good at this. Those kinds of things really burn you out.It's unnecessary stress on yourself, on yourparenting relationship as well.Because you and your spouse may not have the same parenting styles. So that's what I would say is just give yourself a break.This is just hopefully a blip in our lives and that is what children need to see.You thriving as a parent, you being okay mentally as a parent, it's only then that they will, they feel confident, less anxious.So, like they say to fill your own cup before you can go to the others to fill their buckets or cups or whatever. So that would be my one piece of advice is you don't have to be perfect.Just get stuff done.

Jeffery Tobias Halter:That's awesome. anything to add?

Jessie Wei: Yeah, I think that's great. And it's about perception, and I'm working with a coach now and she asked me a question and I was like, that was a great question.She asked me how often during a day, do you tell yourself that you are doing a great job or you’re beautiful oryou're killing it? And I was like, I don't.She was like, well then how often do you actually do that?I don't remember the last time I did that.I tell my children, Hey, great job.Thank you for picking up.I think you did well here.I just want you to try or I tell my team, Hey, thank you.I think this, it looks great.But I forgot to give myself a pat on the back. You did great too.You made it through today.That's all that counts.You know, everyone survived.And I think we just need to, you know, like Smirti said, let it go, a knowledge that we're doing really well, and it's all about perception. I remember one of my bossesshared this with me, and I never forgot how he observed this.I was going through my divorce. And I told him, I don't think I'm doing so well. I don't think I'm getting things done.And he said, that is your perception because we did not notice a difference. So you need to take more time for yourself and don't kill yourself to get to the 110%.You know, when you can give us 80, we'll take 80. When you give us 110, we'll take 110, but not to be afraid to take more time for yourself and take care of what you need to take care of. It's your perception that you're not doing well from where I sit, you're don't well,you're still like killing it. And that I remember very clearly from him. And that was a huge compliment. And you know, also a confidence booster. So I would say, give yourself a pat on the back. You're doing great. Trust me, nobody notices something's not working. It's only you. So you're doing great. Keep going.

Jeffery Tobias Halter: That's awesome, Amanda,

Amanda Hammett: You know, for me, I actually started being very vigilant on two things. I've had an off and on relationship with meditating.I'm a 5 a.m. riser, which Jeff just cringes when I say that.So I get up and I meditate and then I go work out.But I'm off and on, but I noticed I was feeling very burned out during the early days of the pandemic.I was stressed, you know, I have employees to think about, I have their families to think about and I was feeling it.And so I started getting back into meditation and then I started noticing that. All of my meetings were zoom or WebEx or Microsoft teams or Skype. Well, not anymore, but anyway, it was just, it seemed more exhausting to me because I feed off of the energy in the room of other people and I wasn't getting the same.So I was more exhausted by the time five o'clock came around. I just wanted to just pass out.So I recognized that I needed to start taking 30 minutes at five o'clock or whenever my last call wrapped up and just shut my door and my bedroom and read, and it can't be a business book. It can't be anything that's going to make my brain start spinning. It has to be, you know, something where I really don't have to think, but I just need to go into my room and I just need to do this. It just needs to shut my mind off.And once I started doing that, I recognized that not only was I a better leader, I was also a better parentand I was also a better partner in all things.And so I was just taking those 30 minute net nuggets of time for myself, saved me really through this pandemic.

Jeffery Tobias Halter:That's awesome. That's awesome. So as we start to wrap up, I want to close out with really moving to action. And what do we do about this? And so, you know, this is for all of you. What is one thing companies need to stop doing tomorrow? And what is one thing companies need to either start or double down on and do more of. So who'd like to start?

Amanda Hammett: Well, I will go first. So I think that the thing, what I'm seeing across the board with all of the companies that I work with and all the companies that I'm researching currently isthey need to stop with the top-down decision-makingfor how we're going to manage this coming back to the office. That needs to stop. The policy really needs to be, everybody makes their own decisions, team to team. The other thing that I would like to see more of, and I think Jessie touched on this earlier is I would like for us to continue the focus on burnout, mental health how can we support employees holistically versus production, Numbers Because I think we've learned that the whole employee is all we care aboutis better than what you're going to get out as a burned out employee.Yeah.That's okay. So Jessie, Smriti?


So go ahead.


Smriti Rao: Yeah. I was just gonna say, I agree with the top-down policy that companies are just not in a position right now to issue those mandates, asking their workforces to return to work.So I think a top down policy, it may not be that beneficial on andon the, on the other side of it, I think companies need to take a more proactive approach to providing support to working parents, whether that is either tying up with daycares or children care center to provide thosebackup care options for children or even for adults that may need extra help.They need to take a more proactive approach toward that because how are you going to keep women engaged?And in the workforce, if working mothers don't have the support that they need from, you know, from where they're spending the most time of the day, like I spent like almost eight or 10 hours a day at work.And if I don't get support from my work to carry outmy work, like, why would I, why would I be a hundred percent productive? Right. So that's something that companies need to think of no top-down policies or be very mindful of that.And the second thing is having those parental programs to support working parents, especially working mothers.Jessie.

Jessie Wei: My stop doing is stop thinking going back to the old way. That is gone, that ship has sailed.I think everyone, personally or companies, really have to stop thinking that things would go back to where they were. It's just never going to happen.Whether it's work, whether it's how to interact with their own customers and stakeholders.I would suggest all companies and everyone, including me, to start havingmore conversations, to continue having those conversations about what works and what doesn't work and really understand from all levels, all areas.Also cultural differences, right?People from a different region, if you were working for a global company, we experience very differently than people in the US where we're sitting today.So I think it's appreciating, acknowledging and really learning how to make it work and continue to grow and start bringing everyone like Amanda said, bringing your whole self to work.How can we enable and champion our employees to bring their whole self to work.And that includes the families,who have been our co-workers for the past year and a half or so. Continue to let them come into work.Right.Appreciate.And I wanted parents to feel okay, your kids are your coworkers, and they should see what you do, because that's what they will be doing when they grow up. I love that.

Jeffery Tobias Halter: They're your coworkers.And I'm going to chime in on this one.I think companies need to just stop using the word working mother. There's a lot of research around the negative connotations, you know, it's rarethat someone says, well, you know, he's a working dad and all the connotations, like, you know, I love Smirti the way you were always using working parent.And so if we can just shift this dynamic and pick that word and all thenegativity that corporations see and working mom and shift that to working parents, I think that could be huge.I think they need to start new employee resource groups around young parents. There are so many challenges and where are you going to build this village?And, you know, we, we know there's the traditional ERGs that are in most companies,very few companies have a new parent ERG.And I think that could be one thing that we could start with.So as we start to wrap up, I want to share a quick story that you may find humorous. And this was pre-pandemic and I was invited to a women's conference. I was one of the speakers, but Brene Brown was the keynote. Everybody knows Berne, and she's an amazing keynote. And the room was, picture 500 C-level, high level women, and Brene’s talking about, So as you got ready to come to the meeting today, did you put little post-it notes on your admin’s office wall.And did you call your admin on the way to the airplane? Did you call your adminas soon as you landed to check up on them?And of course the women said, no, we've got great staff. We trust them. And then Brene said, how many of you have done this with your husband or your significant other?Where you leave notes for them, you make sure thatthere's food in the refrigerator and that the laundry is done and you call them nine times while they're traveling. And of course, all of the women laughed and said they are all guilty of this.And I'll tell you, as I heard this story, what went through my mind as a man was, oh my God. The last thing I want to do when you call to check-in is I have to utter the words I've killed the children. I forgot to feed them.Oh my God. You know, Jenny went to work in and to play in a dirty soccer uniform and she died.Men don't want to kill your children.Right?But you've got to stop coddling us.We're going to feed them.They're going to get their homework done.They're going to go to school.And as we return to a new normal and people are getting on airplanes,again, just stop coddling, but also realize we might do things a little differently than you do.And pizza is actually a pretty good meal, three days in a row for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.Okay.So with that, this has been an absolute pleasure.This is a topic we're going to continue to revisit as we go into, I'm not even gonna use the word anymore,Amanda, you did with the new normal, we're going to call it work today.So, I just want to close by thanking you all andone last word, if you could give one last word to help people get through this and see the light on the other end, what would that be? So, Jessie, you're shaking your head. What would that be?

Jessie Wei: Take care of yourself. Take a five-word answer. Absolutely.

Smriti Rao: I would say done is better than perfect. Love that.

Jeffery Tobias Halter: So Amanda, bring us home.

Amanda Hammett: Well, just gratitude. I'm thankful for everybody in my life that has made it possible to get through this pandemic.possible to get through this pandemic. So I'm incredibly grateful to everyone. And I'm grateful to all of you on the screen with me today, this has been a really fantastic conversation and I have truly, truly enjoyed it. And I want to thank Jeff for being the guide through this one.

Jeffery Tobias Halter:Thank you for that. You know, it is interesting having two millennial children. uh, two millennial children.Yes. And watching the struggles that they have, this topic is actually very near and dear to my heart. But I'm seeing firsthand the day-to-day decisionsthat they've got to make andI'm doing everything in my power to talk to corporations and senior leaders. Amanda, I know you are, and I know, you know, Jessie and Smirti, you are too. So, thank you for your time and thank you for coming on. I know how busy you are. And so we're going to let you get back to your days. So thank you all for joining us for Wine Down Wednesday.

Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.

Win(e)d Down Wednesday Podcast with Jeffery Tobias Halter and Amanda Hammett

How are moms coping during the pandemic? Parenting Panel – Part I

How are moms coping during the pandemic? For working parents, especially moms, COVID has been the great disrupter. Smriti Rao and Jessie Wei join Win(e)d Down Wednesday hosts Jeffery Tobias Halter and Amanda Hammett for a candid conversation about their experiences at work and at home. Bring your favorite beverage and join the discussion on career transitions, parenting during a pandemic and getting it all done from the kitchen table.

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Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.

The Transcript - Parenting Panel: Part I

Jeffery Tobias Halter: Yeah, well, happy Wednesday. Can you believe it's Hump Day already? Is that even a relevant term? We're all working 24-7. This panel today is going to talk about parenting in a pre-and post-pandemic world. And does Wednesday even matter anymore? Is it just another day of the week? So as always, I'm really excited to be here with my co-host, Amanda, and we've got two special guests. And so I'm actually going to let them introduce themselves and their background. And then we will talk about what our beverage of choice is before we jump into our subject. So, Jessie, would you like to start, please?

Jessie Wei: Yes, of course, Jeff, thank you for having me on the podcast. It's really great to be part of a panel to share my experience as a working parent. My name is Jessie Wei. I'm a senior manager working at EYs audit practice. I'm actually in transition. So I'm relocating to Charlotte, North Carolina. Next month, actually in a month, I will be moving to a new house. I'm a mother to two little boys. They are six and eight. My older son is Henry. My younger one is Preston. I'm having a struggle mom moment this week because my oldest just told me that I can no longer call him a baby anymore. So I'm struggling as a mother emotionally that he's no longer a baby. And my beverage of choice today is just sparkling water. That's a good one though.
All right.Thanks.

Smriti Rao: Hi, everyone.Thanks so much for the opportunity. So my name is Smriti, which is pronounced exactly the way that it is written, and I'm actually Jessie's kinda-sorta neighbor. I live in North Carolina as well, and I lead a team of content and editors over here at Red Hat based in Raleigh. It's been an interesting sort of time so far. I'm happy to talk all about it. I have two young children. The younger one is two. She just turned two and the older one is seven. Lots of adventures during this pandemic dive in. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Jeffery Tobias Halter: So thank you for that. And what's your beverage of choice this afternoon?

Smriti Rao: Yeah, so usually I love a good Pinot Noir from Oregon, but I just got back from a wine trip. I'm all kind of tapped out and I'm going to stay, stay close to caffeine, and have a steady drip of caffeine in my veins.

Jeffery Tobias Halter: As I did the podcast I want to kick this to Amanda now. Amanda is usually the co-host, but you're also a parent, a working parent. So give us that background.

Amanda Hammett: Yes. So my name is Amanda. If you've been on the podcast before, my name is Amanda Hammett.
I'm the founder and CEO of a company called Core Elevation. I'm actually better known as the “millennial translator”
because I am an expert on generations in the workplace. My little boy is now as tall as I am. He is 14. He has had a major growth spurt during the lockdown in quarantine. He grew 10 inches during that time. Yes, no longer a little, but he's 14. And we had a very interesting experience of quarantine as well. Today though, my beverage of choice is a lime Perrier with lots of extra lime. So yeah.

Jeffery Tobias Halter: And you know, me, I'm Jeff and I'm actually enjoying a Sauvignon Blanc from Monterey, it's called Sunny With a Chance of Flowers. It is a no sugar Sauv Blanc and so it fits in your Keto diet quite nicely.
And so go out and enjoy a bottle, something about me and this parenting panel. I have grown children. But both of my children have children of their own. And so, my daughter has a four-year-old named Harlan.
And my son has a now one-year-old named Alexandra Cadence. And so they are both working parents. It's just fascinating to see what goes on today. And one of the things I want to do when we kick off this panel, realizing that this is going to be going out to a corporate audience and in my work at YWomen, one of the things I try to do is just get senior leaders and specifically, men to ask a simple question, what's going on that I don't understand? What's going on in your life? What's going on at work. And I guarantee you many senior leaders do not have the exposure to the challenges and just day-to-day issues that women are facing in just their normal lives. And so I would just love you to spend a couple of minutes and walk me through a day in the life from the time your feet hit the ground until you basically pass out at night and get it up and started again. So, Jessie, would you like to start?

Jessie Wei: Of course. That's a really great question to ask, like, Hey, what's going on in your day? What's happening at home? How are you doing? Simple questions, really, and really meaningful during the pandemic. And it means a lot to everyone, men and women. My day starts when I would get up super early. I'm a 6:30 in the morning person and my alarm will go off and I will do my self-care. My meditation, I'll get up and exercise and then get my coffee ready. Then I'll try to work for about an hour before my kids are up and running and you can hear them throughout the house. We'll do breakfast together. I used to be able to drop them off at school. During the pandemic, they're just staying at home with mom. I'm actually fortunate. I was able to work from home actually about a year before the pandemic started in March 2020. So the working from home transition for me wasn't a huge difference in terms of me working and having my own set up in my home office already. The biggest difference is what am I going to do with the boys? Because I never had to plan their entire day. I felt a lot for our teachers and I still don't know today how they do it because they were able to plan activities and lesson plans. So I went into Mom mode of trying to manage their every hour at the beginning of the pandemic before summer. Trying to do that with them and trying to work. And then every hour, Hey, you got to watch this drawing. Oh, there's this like Zoom meeting with your teachers and your classmates. It was just a lot trying to balance all that and get them ready. And my kids are six and eight, so I have to get the computer up, I'm making sure that they know how to log on. So a lot more hands-on on the day-to-day for them. I don't have after-school care anymore, I didn't feel comfortable with having the nanny there.
So they're actually at home with me all day, and it's really challenging for me to be able to do my calls. I used to be able to close my door. Or Only one at home and do my calls. And now my kids are constantly coming in, Hey Mommy, can I do this?
Hey, mommy, I needed help with this and break my legos apart. So I juggle all that during the day. I have to say I'm blessed.
My mother actually lived with me and came in to help during the pandemic and she's still here and she'll do the breakfast, she will make the food and that takes a lot of stress out of my day to day, not having to figure out what am I going to feed them? Boys are hungry all the time. So you have a steady stream of food you have to keep coming. But you know, my work doesn't really stop at five, but I make a point to stop by six so that we can eat dinner. There are very scheduled parts. And there was I, 6:30 is dinner time You got to come and do dinner. We'll do dinner, we'll do nighttime activities, we’ll read, we’ll clean up, do their bath time and I'll watch TV or watch them play games. And now put them to bed at nine and read them their bedtime stories. They still enjoy that today. So I'm trying to do that. And after that, I go back downstairs to my home office and do more work because I felt really bad that I haven't been able to get through a lot. So I'll work until I'm really tired and realizing, okay, I'm staying at that email for five minutes. It's not going anywhere. So I'm going to go to bed and now get ready for bed and try to go to bed and start my day again. So that's how my day went.

Jeffery Tobias Halter: And on average, how much sleep do you get a night?

Jessie Wei: I would say less than seven hours, so it's not the recommended number.

Jeffery Tobias Halter: Alright, well, thank you for that. Thank you for sharing. Smriti?

Smriti Rao: I mean, hearing Jessie speak, I'm just the does the opposite, which is kind of, which is kinda weird to see because, and also I think hearing Jessie's speak, I just feel like there's so much in common and so much that we do differently as mothers. Right? I'm also pretty fortunate. My mother lives with us. So there's that extra benefit of not having to think about food or what will the children eat, there’s someone else thinking about that. So I'm able to offload that. But for the most part, it is similar to the extent that, you know, from the time you wake up, the children are always front and center of your mind. I think it's something that women tend to do a little bit more than men. I think what has been interesting for me to see during this pandemic is how gendered our roles are. My husband's really supportive. He's a great dad. He's a great husband, but when he goes to work, he goes to work, he's in his office at home. He's fully focused. He's in there. Whereas when I go to work, I'm constantly thinking about did the children need, is there, you know, my older one was in virtual class for the whole year. She was in first grade. Is she logged in? Did she get her snack? Did she finish her homework? I think the amount of multitasking that mothers do is just, I think, that just is greater than the dad. This is not a knock on any father whatsoever, but I just think that during this pandemic, what I realized was how gendered our roles were. And for me personally like looking at my day, it was, yeah, very much similar to Jessie's right? Like the kids need to be fed, they need to finish their work and they need to go to bed on time, which was another important thing for me. But yeah, I think, I think it's just been, it's just drawn into sharp relief, the way we behave as parents, as, men and women. And I think that it's just been interesting to see.

Jeffery Tobias Halter: Yeah, it's interesting. I have a colleague David Johnson, and he talks about the fact that women should go and ask their significant others for a spousal employee review around how supportive they are at home because what the research is showing that men are stepping up, but women are stepping up X plus plus plus, and so it presents an interesting dynamic. So I wouldn't ask you to rate your significant others. But I think for our listeners, it's kind of a fun, easy, element. So Amanda, what about yours?

Amanda Hammett: I would agree with what Smirti said about the gender roles. My husband is phenomenal. We have worked from home pre-pandemic, so we didn't have the issues getting set up like Jessie mentioned earlier. However, when my son was all of a sudden home from school, dad would go into his office, but my office has been, you know, the island or the kitchen table, or because I was usually on client sites or traveling.So, you know, my office was more fluid and so the constant what am I going to eat for snack? I'm hungry, I'm hungry. And I was just constantly like, okay, I've got to move out the kitchen. We had to build out and put up barn doors in our open office or open house concept, uh, so that we could, I could shut him out. And even that, he does not seem to understand that a closed-door is there for a reason, but it, you know, it was a constant, is he logged into class? Did he get everything turned in? Did he do what he needed to do? And it was a very constant thing. Now he did not go and ask these questions of my husband, which I found interesting. And I would ask my son, why are you coming to me? Why not your dad? Well, he's working. What am I doing? You know, it was a constant, it was a really interesting conversation to introduce to my son and my husband actually started becoming much more aware of, Hey, mom's not the only one here. Like, come to me. Ask me. I make decisions here too. So it was, it was interesting to say for sure.

Smriti Rao: You know, which reminds me, Amanda, is that I was on a call with a colleague and I had to keep ducking in and out of that call. Cause I had to go pick up a prescription and come back. And in that moment I was running late to a call and I was just like, you know what? I have never ever thought about this, but I am a working mom. I am working plus I am a mom. Like it's just that term like never resonated more strongly than at a moment. I was like, oh my God. Like, I can't shut one thing off and be the other person because I have to do both at the same time. You know,

Amanda Hammett: I felt like this experience grew my to-do list exponentially. Yeah, yeah.Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You were now more worried about classes that you didn't think about before, so yeah.

Jeffery Tobias Halter: So, as we now go back to a new normal, and there is no more new normal, what does this look like? What does this look like for you all, for your companies? Where's this going to go?

Amanda Hammett: Smriti, why don't you start?

Smriti Rao: Oh, that's, I've been thinking a lot about this. I have been fortunate in the sense that when I moved to the Raleigh area to work for my previous company, they were like, Hey, can you move here to take this job? I was like, sure, we'll move. But then I immediately got put on a team that was based in Europe. And so my first team was based in Europe. My second team, my manager was in New Hampshire. So I've always had the experience of working remotely. And as I moved to this other company that I'm working for, for now, it's continued. My team is mostly remote. So when I see the conversation about returning to work, I think that for me personally, it doesn't make any sense because my team is remote, but, as I kind of think more deeply about this, it is, such a complex issue for companies to deal with. Like what is the new normal? And the fact is that is no new normal. Like this is normal right now. The hybrid work culture is the normal, and it's interesting to see companies saying hey, you know what we know, you guys are all eager to get back to work. And then this is our start date. Everybody comes back to the office like they're trying to reset the clock back to whatever pre-pandemic was. And that's not how time works and that's not how people work, you know, people adapt, people move on. And then when you find something that works for you, people are very hesitant to let it go. So I think it's going to be interesting to see how corporations navigate this, how senior leaders really reach out to their workforce to ask them for their input on what is it that will make you productive. And what is it that will help the company reach its bottom line and goals? I think senior leadership should be paying more attention to how the workforce wants to work and build in those mechanisms so that they're productive, but I have a lot of thoughts about this clearly, but it's just, uh, I just think and I cannot stress this enough, which is I think senior leadership, or it also depends on the makeup of senior leadership, right? So if you have mostly men in your senior leadership, the view that they're going to get out of flexible workplaces, or how employees should work, it's going to be very different from if you have women in your senior leadership and how they're going to view what women in the workforce are going through and how the hybrid-like flexible work culture is more important. So I think that there is no new normal, at least in my sense, this is the normal, this is how we need to be. And I do think that. Corporations have a hard task at hand, and that is no one size fits all policy that works for us as we think of returning to work. So, Jessie, what do you think?

Jessie Wei: Yeah, I think you brought out a few good points, thereof what, what you seeing in the market and what I'm seeing as well, that everyone and every company and people implement strategies differently, at different times, but this time around everyone is implementing and trying to implement the same strategy. How are we returning to work? And what does it mean? I think there's a new definition. What does work mean, what’s working environment mean? I am pretty fortunate that EY just rolled out our new way of working. We called it the EY Wow. We have an acronym for it. It's building on three guiding principles or concepts. It's rethinking about where you work, the break model, the one of the Bs, and then behavior. Right? We’re talking about how we historically wanted everyone to come to the office for meetings. Everyone goes to the client all the time, five days a week. Is that really the behavior we want? What is this kind of collaboration, a teaming that we're trying to get out of it or return to? Right? Which is collaborating, but it's not every single day in person, it’s not every hour in person anymore. How do we change our behavior a little bit? And then the last B is the bytes, the technology. We have spent so much money on technology this past year and a half. How do we capitalize on it? Because we cannot un-spend that money. So companies that implemented Zoom, implemented Microsoft teams or whatever technology it is. It's really continued to utilize those. I would say there's really like Smirti mentioned, there’s no one size fits all. For me, my team, I have a huge team right now and I have to collaborate with my client, who's thinking about the same thing. Historically, my team always traveled to the client about five days a week, and it's an hour's drive outside of Charlotte. So, um, one way, so no one is really excited about that commute anymore including the client. So we're really in a unique position as well as having a great opportunity to rethink how they want to work with us and how we’re returning to work. So I’m in a very great position to actually help influence that process as well as I'm making plans with my client on how they want to work with us so I can come up with a plan, collaborate with them and my team so that we have our plan that fits our team's needs and our client. And it's only for our team and our client, all the teams in the US and around the globe are going to be doing something different. But I think we have to not be afraid to go back to the drawing board if this is not working. And I think that's one thing, most companies rolling out the plans, but we need to probably think about how do we put in measures along the way so that, hey, let's go back to the drawing board because it's not working. Like, let's, let's go back and also we don't know what's going to happen. In a few months, hopefully, everything that we will get past this and move on. But if we have to go back again, how do we, we adjust that, you know, how do we continue to do this and keep everyone kind of mentally, I would say mentally, healthy and taking care of themselves, all those programs that we rolled out due to the pandemic to support parents in general. Or those caring for elderly parents or family members. We continue to need to expand on those because those cares exist. No matter if you're working in an office or working from home, we really need those programs. And for all the working parents, so that we can feel like we can do the work at work and do contribute to work. And also not having to worry a lot about the home until we have to. So I think having that level of support will be very helpful for all working parents and the company to really think about expanding that benefit.

Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.

NextGen Featuring Jeffery Tobias Halter

Next Generations Rockstars: Women + the Broken Rung with Jeffery Tobias Halter

Dismantling the glass ceiling has long been talked about as a way to ensure equality for women in the workplace. Although, many companies have discussed its importance, very few companies have made big strides towards that accomplishment. However as millennials and Gen Z's become the largest portions of the workforce in 2020 dismantling the glass ceiling will be a necessity. However, after all of these decades discussing it, how can we actually do it. Turns out, we need to focus our efforts on what McKinsey and refer to as the "broken rung". Learn more in this episode from Gender Strategist, Jeffery Tobias Halter.

Download the Women + The Broken Rung Whitepaper

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Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.

The Transcript - Women + the Broken Rung

Amanda Hammett 0:01
Hi, my name is Amanda Hammett. And I'm the host of the Next Generation Rockstars Podcast. So today we actually have a special edition for you. For 2020, we decided that we wanted to tackle some of the bigger ideas and concepts in the global workforce and those things that are affecting us every single day that maybe are just below the surface, or maybe things that we just don't think about. So in honor of Women's History Month here in the United States, today's topic is women, particularly women and the intersection of next-generation talents. So my guest today is Jeffrey Tobias Halter. Now, some of you might be a little surprised because to talk about women, I brought in a man and that's very true.

Amanda Hammett 0:47
However, Jeffrey is the president of YWomen and he is a gender strategist. Now Jeffrey didn't just wake up one day and decide, hey, I'm going to be a gender strategist. No, Jeffrey actually led Coca Cola, his early initiatives in the diversity and inclusion world back in the early 2000s. So he has a tremendous amount of experience and knowledge in this area. But Jeffrey and I took it a little bit further, we brought in both of the women of our world for him, next-generation talent for me. And we talked about the broken ROM, which was a term coined by the McKinsey study that they put out in late 2019, in conjunction with the alien organization. And it was a really fascinating study, because all this time, we've been talking about the glass ceiling and breaking the glass ceiling for women. But really, we need to address a parity issue at the very beginning in those early career talent issues. And so, Jeffrey and I spend a lot of time talking about some best practices and things that you can do today to make that happen. So join us take a look at this interview and I would love to hear what you have to say about that. Don't forget to share this and comment below.

Amanda Hammett 2:03
Hi, this is Amanda Hammett. And I'm the host of the Next Generation Rockstars Podcast. Today we have a very special guest. His name is Jeffrey Tobias halter. He is the president of YWomen and he's a gender strategist. Jeffrey, why don't you tell us a little bit about you?

Jeffery Halter 2:20
Yeah. Thanks, Amanda. Thanks for having me on. So basically, my day job focuses on helping companies create an end to end women's leadership strategies, specifically focused on engaging men in the process because we're not going to drive long term systemic change for women without active male engagement.

Amanda Hammett 2:46
Exactly. Perfect. That's amazing. And I love that you're doing that. But I would imagine definitely, you didn't just wake up one day and say a Great idea. I'm going to do something about this. Or maybe you did. Once you tell us a little bit about how did you act doing?

Jeffery Halter 3:02
Yeah, certainly so know if you had told me 20 years ago, this is what I'd be doing. I would have laughed at you. I'm a career sales guy, Procter and Gamble Coca Cola. And in 1999, I was actually doing a staff or patient assignment. I was working in sales training. Before I went back out in the field as a regional vice president. And Coca Cola had a very famous $200 million discrimination lawsuit. We laid off 8000 people. And overnight, I went from working in sales training to leading the diversity education initiative at the company. Now my first reaction was, I'm a straight white guy. What do I know about this diversity thing? What meeting did I not attend to get in charge of this? And then the last thing was, you know, I've got two years' kids, I really need a job. So I'm going to kind of do this diversity thing as long as I can. And so we were charged with training 4000 people in diversity education. now realize it's 2000. And if you've ever seen that episode of the office with the really bad diversity training, this was kind of my project. And I would sit in this program, literally as a hostage and it's my program.

Jeffery Halter 3:53
But I heard stories everyday stories of racism and sexism and homophobia from people that I knew and genuinely respected. And I had what they call a white male epiphany. And a white male epiphany occurs when you realize what white male privilege is, and the world revolves around you. Were always the default, largest number in most meetings. Our voices are always heard. And at that time, I was not ready to be an advocate. I just chose to get curious.

Jeffery Halter 5:07
And so I started having conversations, I would go out and talk to women and African American colleagues and I would say, Hey, I heard this in class. Can you validate? Is this true? And what happens when you have these genuine conversations, you quickly realize that women and other underrepresented groups are having completely different experiences than I'm experiencing as a white male. And so I chose to get more and more curious. Tom Peters had just come out with reimagine it was now 2004 and he was talking about the business case for women. And so this really clicked for me because I had for a time being seen diversity and inclusion kind of a soft HR thing. And what I realized is, in fact, it's a business imperative women buy everything in this country, and yet most sales teams are still made up of men. Women are getting more degrees than men are, whether it's bachelor's, masters, PhDs, Jadis. And so over the course of the last 20 years, I have evolved to a position now where I consult with fortune 500 companies and executive teams and work primarily with men on how to move from not just being an ally. I actually think that term is overused nowadays, I think it's kind of soft. We need to move men to advocacy, because I know you've seen the research that says women are under sponsored and over mentored Well, in my mind, this is the same thing a man mentoring a woman as an ally. I certainly want to congratulate all the men out there who are our allies. We've reached a point in time 2020, where we need advocates, visible vocal men, senior leaders, demonstrating to the organization why this is important.

Amanda Hammett 7:19
I love it. I love that. And I couldn't agree more with everything you said. You're preaching basically to the choir here.

Jeffery Halter 7:27
Of course.

Amanda Hammett 7:28
Let's talk for just a second. You and I have had some conversations today. And Mackenzie recently put out a study they annually put out a study on women in the workplace, partnering with LinkedIn, or I'm sorry Lena, and for quite a while to do this. But the 2019 study was really interesting and you actually pointed out that it would be a very interesting study in my work as well. specifically talking about that in just above the entry-level for Women, then actually I'd like to quote a little something from the intro to this study. So this is lean in 2019 study on women. An increasing number of companies are seeing the value of having more women in leadership, and they're proving that they can make progress on gender diversity. Still, women continue to be underrepresented at every level. To change the numbers, companies need to focus on where the real problem is. We often talk about the quote, the glass ceiling that prevents women from reaching senior leadership positions. In reality, the biggest obstacle that women face is much earlier in the pipeline. At the first step up to manager fixing this quote, broken wrong is the key to achieving parity. Yep. So let's talk about this broken wrong. I think that this is huge and it is something that really we don't hear a whole lot in The vernacular of the DNI space or just in my everyday work. So what is the broken rung mean? Exactly what is...

Jeffery Halter 9:08
You've got to look at this intersectionality of race and women to see really gross underrepresentation. And, and a lot of people might be sitting there thinking, Well, you know, that doesn't happen at my company. McKenzie research is based on 600 multinational companies. So this is very well documented research.

Jeffery Halter 9:08
Yeah, and this is fascinating. The Broken run basically is that first promotion whether that pardons me, individual contributor to senior individual contributor, team member to Team Leader. And what's really fascinating is, most research a lot of the McKenzie research a lot of the lean and research for years is focused on what we would describe as choke points, which we always thought were a director to VP, VP to SVP, SVP, the C suite, right. And what we're finding is and this is the first time they've actually reported on this, the broken rung exists at that first position. And for every 100 men promoted seven Two women are promoted 58 women of color are promoted. And so this isn't just a, a women thing.

Amanda Hammett 10:36

Jeffery Halter 10:37
And then you have to start to, to unpack what this looks like. Because think about this. Oftentimes, your first promotion in a company comes by another fairly young, possibly not well-trained leader, you know, we tend to focus I know certainly we did a Coca Cola on training directors. And sales leaders and that first level leader gets very little support get very little training. And oh, by the way, in 2020, you know, 10 years ago, that person may be had seven direct reports. Now they probably have 14 because organizations have been flattening, no support, no training. And now we're asking them to make what seems like a pretty routine decision.

Jeffery Halter 11:32
We need to promote someone right into their first job. And yet they've had no training in how to interview unconscious interview to mitigate unconscious bias. Maybe they aren't aware of concepts like diverse slates or more importantly, diverse panels. So slates are ensuring you have, you know, a minimum of one but ideally Two to three candidates who are women are underrepresented groups. Diverse panels are doing the same thing. Because what we're finding is diverse slates don't necessarily work when you as a young female command in your face by three older men. Yeah. And so that's why the interview panel has to also be diverse. And so this one simple thing. Picture this, if we promoted women in their first job at the same rate of men, we would have one more million women move into leadership in the next five years. So we keep thinking this is this huge struggle. And in fact, it starts very early and we can actually do something about it.

Amanda Hammett 12:52
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I'd like to circle back to something you just said about those diverse panels and so for those of you who don't aren't aware, Jeffrey is also an author. This is his book. It's called "Why Women" and it is phenomenal. You can see I have maybe left it a little too. But I actually went through and I was thinking about this very thing going into our conversation. And here's something that I've highlighted. I'd like you to talk about it. Many hiring managers often have a preconceived notation of what they're looking for someone who fits their definition of leadership, which is most often based on a traditional mock male model of leadership. I mean, and that is so so interesting because we don't think of it that way. Like this is just leadership. But...

Jeffery Halter 13:45
Yeah, so I'll give you and I can certainly share this with you on your website. So I do a training activity, and I list 30 words associated with management and We asked people to just check off their top 10 words they would associate with managers. She checked them off, no big deal, says what makes a good manager. And then I asked them to put a gender to that word.

Jeffery Halter 14:15
Now, it would be easy to say, you know, these terms are genderless. But I don't let them do that. You've got to pick the first one that pops in your mind. And what we find out is, and this is, this is based on a Google study of 80,000. leaders, and what we find is that two thirds, as many words are associated with men, as with women, the words much stronger things like an analytical risk-taker, assertive, the women words, much softer, much as you would imagine. And then they were asked when you think of a leader, how do you rank the words and instead of two thirds, four-fifths of the words 80% were associated with men, only 20% were associated with women. So this is a great simple exercise. And here's one more caveat on this.

Jeffery Halter 15:18
The New York Times in November of last year did an article and they asked fifth-grade girls to drop pictures of leaders. And literally every little girl drew a picture of a man. And so what it says is this predisposition starts very young. And so it's not just men who are thinking that leaders are men, to women also carry an unconscious bias. So this is just one element of what do we think a leader is? And in my book, I talked about the double bind. dilemma. And this is so critical, particularly for men to understand when you're interviewing women because women face a double bind dilemma. So Amanda, if you're too tough, you know what you're called?

Amanda Hammett 16:15
Yes, I do.

Jeffery Halter 16:16
And if you're too soft, you know what you're called?

Amanda Hammett 16:19

Jeffery Halter 16:20
You're never just right. It's the Goldilocks effect. Men. If you think about a continuum, you know, where assertiveness is at the one end, you know, men can be 90% profanity using pounding the table, you know, aggressive to down a 10%. Quiet, introvert, finance-oriented, but they're still respected as leaders. I don't have research on this, but I believe women fall into about a 45 to 55% narrow band where you know, you're not to a certain If you're not too soft, you're just right. Yes. And so it's a tightrope. It's a huge tightrope, and when we're evaluating talent, or more importantly, the performance reviews leading up to you being promoted, you know, so so assertive is a great word, or aggressive or emotional, you know, women are often called emotional. And that's everything from raising your voice. Oh, by the way, men raise their voice and no one judges them on it.

Jeffery Halter 17:33
Now, many times women are raising their voice because they're not being heard or they're being ignored in a meeting and I interpret that as, you know, oh, she's so emotional about this. Whereas when Ron pounds his fist and and, you know, drops an F-bomb, it's no big deal. And so these little subtle things really factor in and then I'll put one more out there. And it's really a tendency to see ourselves or someone like us in that candidate. This is a huge blind spot for companies that tend to recruit at the same schools. You know, when someone walks in the door, you know, if I went to Georgia Tech and you went to Georgia Tech, Does that just raise you up a notch? You know, in my eyes? Certainly, certainly. Do I, and this is a common one for men.

Jeffery Halter 18:36
You know, do I see myself in you 30 years ago when I was starting out? And so that's much harder for me to look at a young woman and say, Well, you know, gosh, can she really do this. So all of these biases are critical. And so smart companies implement, you know, programmatic elements to eliminate some of these But none of it makes it back down just going full circle down to that first level manager doing the first round of interview. And so I've got one simple solution. One simple solution doesn't cost any money. Every time you have that first level interview, right? I want the managers' manager to just ask a question.

Amanda Hammett 19:24

Jeffery Halter 19:25
How many women do you have on the slate? And if the answer is none, then you have a responsibility to look that manager in the eye and say, What are you doing to get some ready? And what are we going to do next time? Because it's just not acceptable, that you don't have any women ready? And oh, by the way, that simple question needs to be asked at every level of leadership because I've seen it in the C suite, where an EDP job comes open and We're sitting in talent review. And Jim puts forward the same three guys he's put up before. And then the CEO never looks at Jim and says, Okay, I'm giving you a pass this time. But what are you doing to get a woman ready? And that simple question is never asked, and it drives me crazy.

Amanda Hammett 20:23
Absolutely. And it's, you are so right, it starts so early. This is actually something that I have ongoing conversations with teams about. So in our company, we do something called the collision course. And it's the collision between leadership and next-gen talent. And there are various points along the way. And this is something that I'm always asking, you know, at these frontline leaders, are they ready? And are they willing to help identify what are you doing to identify these next, next leaders? And the question is always met with deer in the headlights like, you know, no process. And the process that they do have is inherently flawed.

Jeffery Halter 21:04
You know, and being a generational expert, you know, this, you know, I was raised in an era of command and control. You know, in the 90s, it was very easy to be a leader and a manager today. I need to manage Amanda differently than I managed Jim, and Terry, and Monica. And that takes a high degree of skill. And it takes so much more time and so much more investment. But it goes full circle to what do millennials want? What a Gen Z want? They want feedback. They want a challenge. And by the way, they may lead differently than you. Yes. But that's okay. You got to give them a chance. And by the way, they're going to make mistakes. We know we made mistakes, too.

Amanda Hammett 22:01
Yes, it seems like that idea of mistakes. It's just like don't talk about it. Don't talk about it.

Jeffery Halter 22:05

Amanda Hammett 22:06
Absolutely. Yeah. So what would be your suggestion for a company that is just they're really struggling at this first frontline level of preparing women, especially those early in career women to get up to that next to that first level of frontline leadership, what would you suggest to them?

Jeffery Halter 22:26
I think it's important to have programs and processes. You know, this is where HR meets the business. And you've got to have leaders understanding the purpose behind the HR programs and accountability and accountability being the big one. And again, I'll share this with you for your reader or Watchers on the website. But there are 10 things we need to hold leaders accountable in this space. And this is huge. Again. This came out of a McKinsey study delivering through diversity, but it's just as powerful. 86% of companies say they can articulate the business case, but only 16% hold people accountable. And so, you know, I was in sales for 20 years and I had a quota every quarter that if I didn't meet, I would be replaced. We yet we talked about setting goals and metrics for women in leadership and immediately we go, Oh, no, we can't count that we can't track that. We track everything in business, you have to track it. And so it goes back to holding people accountable for some of the things we talked about already. Diverse slates, diverse panels, regrettable losses is a big one. How are you identifying top talent you know, this whole notion of my big point is having a conversation on a weekly, weekly, monthly basis about our differences? And that's as simple as this.

Jeffery Halter 24:16
We all work really hard, but we really don't have time to understand each other. And it goes back to my very first premise around how I came to do this work. And so what I encourage organizations to do, and you can do this at every level, is pull something out of the newspaper, watch a YouTube video, watch a TED talk, and then just talk about it. You know this is we're in the middle of Black History Month, we're going to have Women's History Month, next month, you know, watch a video and then just talk about the concepts. You know, I know we're focused on you know, millennials and women, one of the best things I've ever seen And it's called the American sun. It's a stage play that's now on Netflix. And it stars Kerry Washington. And it's fabulous to show at a team meeting to start a conversation around race. And quite frankly, the things we don't understand about race. But there's great, you know, there are great movies for women, this representation is another one. But they don't have to be big. You know, once a week, the USA Today polls and publishes at least two or three articles on women, or millennials. And so just read the article and talk about it. So that so those are just some of the things I think companies can do.

Amanda Hammett 25:44
Absolutely. I think just opening up those lines of communication is basic first-level stuff that's free, and it can just, it's amazing what it can bring out of it not just seeing people's different perspectives, but also building trust and building those foundational items that you need for a team

Jeffery Halter 26:01

Amanda Hammett 26:01
Absolutely. All right. Well, Jeffrey, this has been really enlightening and eye-opening. Where can my audience find you?

Jeffery Halter 26:10
Yes. So a, the Y being the Y chromosome, pretty easy to manage, and understand. But please go to my website, I have three white papers, I have a free assessment your leaders can take one is quality gender advocate profile, and one is called a male advocate profile. And it has 20 questions that cause you to think about how you become an advocate, but more importantly, the 10 steps and actions you can take to become an activist or an advocate. And so just go out and look around. I've got all kinds of free materials and we'd love to continue this conversation.

Amanda Hammett 26:59
Absolutely. Also, another plug for the book. If you get a copy of this book, you can mark up your own coffee. I like coffee. But again, Jeffery thank you so much for being here for sharing with us and enlightening all of us. Your work is phenomenal. And I am a big fan. So again, thank you to the audience for sharing your time with us. And we look forward to seeing you in the next episode.

Amanda Hammett 27:23
Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Next Generation Rockstars where we have discussed all recruiting and retaining that next generation of talent. So I'm guessing that you probably learned a tremendous amount from this week's rock star leader. And if that is the case, don't keep me a secret, share this episode with the world. But really share it with your friends with your colleagues because they also need to learn how to recruit and retain this next generation of talent because these skills are crucial to business success moving forward. Now, of course, I want you to keep up to date every single week as we are dropping each and every episode, so be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice. And you will see the next generation rock stars show up just for you.

Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.

Next Generations Rockstars: Season 2 Wrap Up

Next Generations Rockstars: Season 2 Wrap Up

Season 2 brought leaders from a variety of different industries and company sizes. The one thing they all had in common was their focus on their people. That focus on their employees has made these leaders and these companies some of the fastest growing and best places to work.

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Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.

The Transcript - Next Generations Rockstars: Season 2 Wrap Up

Welcome to the Next Generations RockstarsHoward Behar podcast. If you are trying to figure out how do you recruit and retain this next generation of rock star talent while you are in the right place.

Hey and welcome to this week's episode of The Next Generation rock stars podcast. So this episode is actually a wrap up of the entire season too. And what an amazing season this was. This season has brought about leaders from all different companies and there have been some big names that we've brought in Howard Behar from Starbucks. There was Horst Schulze who is one of the co-founders of the Ritz Carlton known for their culture known for their customer service. Then there was Fran Katsoudas who is the chief people officer at Cisco Systems globally.

Matt Schuyler who is the Chief H.R. officer over there. Hilton Hotels again a massive global company. But then there are also people that you may not have heard of before their episode came out. People like. Ben Wright at Velocity global making a huge different difference over there.

Alan Cherry was the former head of H.R. at Tesla. Now he's at a company called our planet earth and they're doing some amazing work. But then you also have someone like Crystal Khalil at Pausch North America and of course Cassie Buckroyd of Columbia Sportswear. All of those people whether they're a big household name or you know people you might not have heard of before their episode went live. These people are making a difference in their early career talent. And I would venture to guess it's not just their early career talent that they're making a difference for it's really everybody who's lives that they're coming into contact with.

And the third touching and making a difference on because you know what you source in each and every one of these interviews is that they are creating an environment within their company or a culture within their company or people want to come to work. And when people want to come to work you see a big difference in the type of work that they're doing in the fact that they're giving it their all. They want to innovate. They want to make a difference. They want to be more productive and in the end, companies tend to see increases in productivity profitability.

You know just a few important things that CEOs like to see on bottom lines. But do you know why they're doing it. It's because these employees feel supported. They feel that their company but more importantly their leader. They feel like they see them as more than just this cog in the big corporate wheel. They feel that their leader and their company sees them holistically as a real person with actual real things going on in their lives. And that's really important. That has made all the difference. Every single one of these leaders is making that difference every single day.

And I think that is something that each and every one of us can learn from. You know maybe we don't implement everything that my Schuyler at Hilton is implementing across you know a massive global workforce. Maybe it's just we pick out one or two things as lessons learned that we can implement today or maybe you take the lead from someone like Cassie Buckroyd at Columbia Sportswear where she is taking in things and saying OK you know what. This was a great lesson learned. We listened to our employees and this is how we're implementing it.

You know she's taking in that survey information and then she's taking action and making a real positive change for her employees. So these are just some small things that different companies have done. But what can you do as a leader as an employee of a company maybe as a CEO of a company? What can you do to make a difference for your employees or for your team or maybe your entire company? What are some small things that will have large ripple effects so that the people sitting around you day in and day out know that you see them?

Not just as someone who gets work done but you see them as somebody who makes a difference you see them as somebody who's human and it has all the emotions and things with being a human that are all involved. We've really seen this massive integration between work and life. It's no longer two separate entities. It really is. An integration. There's no balance to it. It really is integration with all the technology that we've introduced besides cell phones besides email. We really have. Integrated work life and personal life.

And I feel like that's going to. That trend is going to continue it's only going to become even more integrated as we go along. As more technology is rolled out. So what are you going to do as a leader to stay in front of it? What are you going to do in order to help your employees master that integration? And as a leader what are you going to do for yourself to master that integration.

So Season 2 was pretty amazing. We had some great guest and I think that you will see season 3 brings about even more amazing guests. Season 3 will be all about young employees so millennials and if we can find some Joneses who are now leading teams maybe for the first time maybe they've been leading teams for a little while now. But we're gonna learn about their lessons learned. What did they learn along the way what was maybe some of the mistakes that they made? And how did their leaders support them how did their company support them as they made that tradition or a transition from individual contributor to leader of a team.

So looking forward to seeing you in season three of the next generation rock stars that will be launching early 2020. All right see you then.

So be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice and you will see the next generation rock stars show up just for you.

Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.

Amanda and Gene Thumbnail

The 5 Types of Workers Hurting Your Employee Retention

Employee retention is one of the biggest and most expensive problems that companies have. If you have an employee leave before you are ready for them to leave, you know the cost of replacing that person is going to be expensive. Employee retention for some roles can be higher than 50 percent in a 12 month period. My special guest today is Gene Hammett, my husband who is a Speaker, Author, and Host of the Podcast "Growth Think Tank".

In this special episode, we look at employee retention in a fun way. We analyze the five types of workers that are hurting your bottom line. Gene and I share specific types of people that will cause a turnover. We talk about why employee retention matters.

Gene Hammett is a Best-Selling Author, Keynote Speaker, Proven Business Consultant and Founder of Growth Think Tank (formerly know as “Leaders in the Trenches”) recognized by and for being a top podcast for leaders.

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Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.

The Transcript - The 5 Types of Workers Hurting Your Employee Retention

[00:00:00.060] - Amanda
Welcome to the Next Generation Rock stars podcast. If you are trying to figure out how do you recruit and retain this next generation of rock star talent while you are in the right place.

[00:00:14.940] - Amanda
So today's episode is gonna be a little bit different than what you're used to seeing from me today. I've partnered with my hubby right here my hubby, my business partner Gene Hammett.

[00:00:25.590] - Gene
Well glad to be here with you. I run a podcast called Growth Think Tank and I work with the founders and leaders of the INC 5000 companies growing fast as one percent of companies in the world.

[00:00:39.510] - Amanda
Absolutely. So we are going to be taking a look at where our work collides and that happens to be in the world of employee retention. So this episode today is talking about the five types of workers who are hurting your employee retention. So follow along with us as we tell some comical stories from our own personal work experience or maybe from some of the companies that we've worked with previously where we talk about each type of the employees and how it's actually hurting your employee retention. But in there we're also going to be offering up a free framework that Gene and I have perfected over the years through our own work as entrepreneurs but also in working with other companies.

[00:01:24.360] - Amanda
And this framework is called the "Stay Framework" and it is super simple. It's something that we use to keep employees happy fulfilled and motivated at work. And let me tell you some of these things are so easy that you can implement them to day and see major major results out of your employees because that's all what we want. We want our employees to be productive. We want them to be efficient. But we also want them to stay. So sign up to get the free stay framework and with it we'll be offering up a free training that we've partnered with a company called Velocity global.

[00:02:01.950] - Amanda
Now velocity global CEO Ben Wright will be on doing this training with us. And Ben actually runs a PEO company which is a employee benefits company. And this is global so companies that are small medium sized that are struggling with those benefit pieces those are pieces that can trip up any company Ben's company velocity global will swoop in and help you fix it.

[00:02:26.400] - Gene
So where do they get that report?

[00:02:27.540] - Amanda
So if you go to you can download that report to day. All right here's the episode.

[00:02:37.260] - Gene
Employee retention I really love this conversation because it really is one of the biggest things going on in our workforce. What do you think about employee routines.

[00:02:46.200] - Amanda
This is something I hear over and over and over again. Anytime I'm at a conference speaking or if I'm working with employees there are companies they're always saying how can we keep more of our employees.

[00:02:58.680] - Gene
There's a war for talent. You probably feel it because you want to have the best workers You want to have the most talented. You want them to to be a part of the culture and you want to make sure you're very intentional about creating a kind of work experience that makes it so that they really love to come to work. But employee retention is something that a lot of people kind of like it's too fluffy right. Because it's not something that is on the balance sheet or the panel. If you had a number on your financials that said exactly what it's costing you because of employee retention you'd be surprised and you'd pay a lot more attention to it.

[00:03:37.770] - Amanda
Absolutely. The cost of employee retention is staggering. If CFO knew exactly how much this was costing it would change the way that companies around the world would operate because right now employee retention is broken up into so many different buckets whether it's training or management or recruiting cos it's it's all broken up so it's not one specific number. But the thing is that actually according to Gallup they estimate that every single year the cost the American economy over a trillion dollars just in employee turnover.

[00:04:16.290] - Gene
Let me jump in here because that's a big number. Like a trillion is really big. But you know let's talk about it from a sense of what is it costing you right now.

[00:04:25.780] - Amanda
So sure, which is the society for Human Resource Management estimates that it actually costs between one and a half and two times that person's salary in order to replace them. So that is the recruiting cost that is the more soft cost. So like the manager training time getting that person ramped up. But let's be honest a lot of the industries that I work with they have employees that have been there 30-40 years. They are that amount of corporate knowledge that walks out the door. It's going to take years and years and years to replicate that into a new person. So that to you know two times their salary I think is easily done.

[00:05:07.640] - Gene
That's really for knowledge workers. Like if you had someone that was an hourly employee it's going to be less but there still is a cost to to employee return.

[00:05:16.070] - Amanda
Oh absolutely. But even in the hourly space you know there are a lot of situations where you have people that have been there 20, 30, 40 years and so they're taking with them a lot of that knowledge. So it is an ongoing issue.

[00:05:29.750] - Gene
I had a workshop a few weeks ago that you attended and one of the clients in there talked about losing. Things at twenty five employees in one month. Yeah. And I said know what do you think that cost you. He goes I know exactly what it cost me because I had to get temporary workers. These are hourly paid. And it cost him a quarter of a million dollars.

[00:05:49.360] - Amanda
In one month.

[00:05:50.040] - Gene
In one month. So It is costing you a lot of money not really understanding this employee retention. So that's the reason why we put together this episode we've come together. You know I focus on a different set of clients which you've already explained and Amanda has the corporate side of this. But together we've seen this and we want to share with you and make this a little bit fun. So we're going to talk about the five types of workers that are hurting. Your employee retention. So. You're ready.

[00:06:21.050] - Amanda
Your lately. Yeah. That's her. These are some good ones. And we've all seen each of these. Play out in our own careers. So the first one is the micro manager. I mean come on we have all seen this time and time again.

[00:06:36.610] - Gene
I'll be honest I've probably been a micromanager from time to time. It's easy to be a micromanager because if you're an A player if you've done the work before you know exactly what to do and you can actually just tell them and that's the easiest quickest thing for you to do is to tell them the exact steps. Is that right.

[00:06:59.430] - Amanda
Right. But I think a micromanager there's there's more to it. It's standing over. It's like constantly like in their face. What are you doing now what are you doing now. And it gets to the point where the employee can't even do their work because they're so focused on responding to you or answering to you that they end up having to spend a lot more time and anxiety invested in just calming you and dealing with you.

[00:07:23.880] - Gene
This reminds me of a story of one of my clients who you know before he became an entrepreneur was talking about. You know his manager and this this guy was the traditional micromanager. He was hired to do some marketing for the company and the the owner of the company knew a little bit about marketing enough to be dangerous as they say. But he would second guess everything that that was suggested as important or the next steps. And he would you know. Talk about the newsletter and the open rates and why did it happen. And I remember one specific details he was like well I didn't get it and it was back and forth back and forth and he's like Did you check your spam folder.

[00:08:03.540] - Gene
He goes It's not in my spam folder. And then all of a. Guess what it was in the spam folder. So you know there's a lot of different types of managers out there but the micro manager. Probably is one of the worse because you think you're doing the right thing but usually you're not.

[00:08:20.170] - Amanda
Yeah absolutely. So you know I do a lot with the younger employees those under 30 early in career and this is something I hear consistently over and over again is this micromanager and how it's just devastating to your career in a lot of ways. I had a young lady come up to me at a conference recently and she told me about her manager her former manager. She said that he's basically. Had her sit down at the end of the day not during the actual workday but at the end of the day.

[00:08:54.070] - Amanda
And she had to write out everything that she did that entire day broken down into 15 minute increments. Now keep in mind this young lady was not an hourly employee. She was a salaried employee and he expected this to come to his email box no earlier than six 15. Now the office closed at 6:00 but she was not to work on it during the day. And she had to do this every single day. And if she didn't I mean there was consequences the following day. And now I don't think it's going to shock anybody to tell you that she did not last even a year at this company before she was gone and it all had to do with this micromanager.

[00:09:35.080] - Gene
I want to make sure we connect the dots here because the micromanager you may thinking you know how is that hurting retention. Well you may have heard this before. I think it's just so appropriate but people don't leave jobs they leave managers. Absolutely. And we probably all had bad managers that we reported to. That caused us to leave companies. And that is the reason why it's number one in the list. It is probably one of the most common. And it really is something that we wanted to kind of draw you into this because some of the others are gonna be a little bit more maybe even fun to talk about because you when we came together we had a lot of fun putting all these together and just for you.

[00:10:18.760] - Amanda
All right. So the second one is not a micromanager but a clueless boss. Now I want to talk about this from my own personal experience. I had a boss one time and I'm not going to name names. However. Every single day or every single interaction I had with this person I would just sit back and ask myself How in the world did you become a manager. How are you in charge of leading people and not just one or two. I mean 50 or 60 people and I was flabbergasted daily. You remember those days.

[00:10:55.670] - Gene
I do. They were stressful because you cried a lot. But I I've been through this too. I mean mine was a little bit different. I've I respected this manager but the way they showed up had no regard for the company growing and moving forward. It was just a place for them to kind of I was more like a hobby than it was anything else and I say clueless because it really did feel like I'm pushing forward the business harder than the owner of the business was. And it really. Really allowed me to reflect on what kind of boss I wanted to be in this whole thing and I wanted to be the exact opposite.

[00:11:35.380] - Amanda
Absolutely. But I think in that situation I mean she actually had personal shoppers coming in. She had no clue literally what was going on in the day to day.

[00:11:44.860] - Gene
She she said she did but she was just checked out the most of it. You know it's hard to get that kind of work done in a couple of hours. It was a small operation. I grew a lot because I was forced to think self which was good for me because I had that drive but it really is just as clueless bosses is. The people that you really have no respect for.

[00:12:06.970] - Amanda

[00:12:07.270] - Gene
Is that fair?

[00:12:07.880] - Amanda
Absolutely. But in my case I mean he was smart in a certain way. But he would ask questions of me and meetings or of anybody and everybody was just staring at him and you could tell that they were like. Kind of an idiot here and I felt really bad but at the same time I eventually just had to start saying hey this is how it is. This is this is the decisions that we need to be making this is the direction that we need to be taking. And he actually asked me in the exit interview if I had listened to you would would you be leaving. And I said. Probably not.

[00:12:42.150] - Amanda
At least not now.

[00:12:43.290] - Gene
Well I'm thinking about this right now and we could put this together. We we talked about stories that could fit along with it and we we picked two personal stories here because. We thought you could relate to them but also we we left both those jobs so we quit. And that really drives into you know you want to make sure you pay attention to this clueless boss character if you will because it will impact your employee retention.

[00:13:11.910] - Amanda
I will actually say that this particular boss situation that I was talking about the turnover there was enormous. I mean it was a constant churn of employees in and out in and out in and out some roles. Obviously a lot more than others but it was like you you almost got to the point where you didn't want to invest in getting to know somebody new because you knew that they'd be gone within you know six months at the most.

[00:13:39.500] - Gene
Let's hold up here for a second because we're talking about these types of workers that are hurting your employee retention if you want to be a better manager and you want to really create the kind of leadership that people admire then you want to have a simple framework that we've developed over a few years of working with leaders that will help you increase the employee retention. We call it the stay framework.

[00:14:00.770] - Amanda
Absolutely. And this framework is super easy and it's super easy to implement and use every single day with your employees because again at the end of the day you want to keep them. So we have boil this down to one page one simple page you can just easily implement. So sign up and get it below.

[00:14:19.820] - Gene
There is one thing in there that we have seen that almost every manager is leaving out. They don't even know to include it. They're actually opposed to it but the power of this one little thing that's inside there that takes about five minutes is really a game changer when it comes to employee retention.

[00:14:37.580] - Amanda
Absolutely. I mentioned it when I spoke at a conference recently and it was just profound to everybody in that audience. So if you want to get the framework to help you retain your employees be sure to go to and download that today. All right. So the third type of employee that is chilling your retention. It is the loafer.

[00:15:07.300] - Gene
The loafer is the person we all know that tries to seem like they're working. But they're never really getting anything done.

[00:15:14.380] - Amanda
Yeah. They are doing the bare minimum in order to survive in order to continue to collect that paycheck. And it's really frustrating for everybody else because they're actually having to pick up the slack because you know this person didn't get things done on time or they're wondering around the office drinking coffee and talking to people. And what are they actually doing. What are they actually accomplishing. It's fascinating.

[00:15:38.710] - Gene
Everyone knows that social butterfly. And they seem to never be really doing the work that they're supposed to be doing. I don't know how when a manager sits down with that person that they can actually. You know not just find them on the spot.

[00:15:52.860] - Amanda
I think what it is is a lot of times they're able to hide. They're able to find themselves into situations with managers who are not having these. Constant conversations about what's going on. How can we help you.

[00:16:07.050] - Gene
Well this reminds me of a story that I was involved in the company that went through a merger and you bring over two cultures and they combined together and that happens from time to time. And in this case this this founder was talking about you know bringing over a group of people that just didn't seem to fit and those people were told to to really operate in a different way than what they were used to. And it really taught cause a lot of them to just kind of switch off and so they just collected a paycheck.

[00:16:40.980] - Gene
They showed up day in and day out. They were at the meetings they were supposed to be at. Everything looked from the surface like they were doing what they're supposed to be doing. But we both know the truth. They were just loafing around.

[00:16:52.350] - Amanda
Oh absolutely. I mean you know I have. Plenty of stories about this. You know whether it's my own personal work history or dealing with companies that I've worked with. But one stands out in my mind and this person wandered around drank coffee checked Facebook regularly. I mean constantly was updating Facebook or social media and it was just it was fascinating because everybody knew who this person was and loved it when they stopped by and chatted for a minute. But at the end of the day what did this person actually accomplish. I'm still baffled by that.

[00:17:29.070] - Gene
So we're talking about employee retention. I want to be clear you want the loafer to leave.

[00:17:35.010] - Amanda
I was so frustrated with the loafer.

[00:17:39.860] - Gene
But that's exactly the reason why you need to be tuned into this because. That kind of person that loafer is driving others away if you don't have a high enough standard for the work then others won't take the whole job very seriously and they'll be looking for a place where they can can really be a self starter that can really be appreciated for doing the work and they want to be surrounded by others that are doing the work.

[00:18:05.310] - Amanda
Absolutely I mean this the low four wheel drive away you're eight players. Absolutely. They can't stand to see this. And so you know a players want to work with other players not with loafers. Got to lose the low.

[00:18:22.600] - Gene
All right so let's go into number four because it is this is a fun one. We had to put it in there because it happens from time to time. I think you've had more experience with this.

[00:18:32.930] - Amanda
I have.

[00:18:34.150] - Gene
But the fourth type of employee that is killing your employee retention is the hired. That one person that flies off the handle way too quick. They they really overexaggerate certain things. And I'll be cleared here. You want them to leave too. But you also want to make sure that you're creating a place and employee experience where these people don't exist.

[00:18:58.870] - Amanda
Absolutely. I mean for one in this day and age we need to you know employees sense of safety needs to come. It's paramount to everything else. And in certain situations these hotheads can get pretty extreme and can make you feel unsafe. Now I worked with a certain hothead and we found ourselves always walking on eggshells around this person constantly tiptoeing Oh how is he going to react to this. And you know some situations he would be great. In other situations it would just explode. One day he actually threw a chair in a conference room up against the window it bounced back and almost hit somebody.

[00:19:40.660] - Amanda
But that was actually the day that myself and a few other people decided we were out but cause of this hothead.

[00:19:47.500] - Gene
The one of the number one factors of team success is psychological safety. This comes from the air startle work at Google. It's done with many times over with companies looking at this. So creating a place where this hothead doesn't survive doesn't the last is a really important part of your leadership.

[00:20:07.870] - Amanda
Absolutely. And you know it really is up to the leaders to recognize this kind of behavior and nip it in the bud. Move that person out. This is not something that you want to continue because other people are. Are constantly thinking about. I've got to go. I've got to get out of here. I can't continue to work with this person.

[00:20:30.850] - Gene
All right. Number five I think this one's the hardest two to really get your head around but it is a game changer when you think about this. If you value your culture then this is the type of person that you must let go of. Number five is the toxic superstar. Yes. We we all have probably work with people that have rubbed us the wrong way but they were good at what they did.

[00:20:57.280] - Amanda

[00:20:58.660] - Gene
I had a client once where we were sitting around with the CEO and the CEO of this small company about 30 people and we were talking about you know give me the name of two people that really give you frustration as a leader.

[00:21:13.780] - Gene
Well, two ladies came up the names came up I won't share the names but one of them cried all the time. And I get it. Like you don't want to have these conversations and it seems to me daily that she was crying and I asked why was she crying. Well that gets us back into number two which is the toxic superstar in this in their world. She was a high performer she was. She was in recruiting. She was really able to do the work of two to three employees.

[00:21:41.470] - Gene
Which is impressive. But if it comes at the cost of her being toxic and driving others away because it was truly what I listed through how many people had she drink driven away it was like four in the last like three four months really a very expensive decision to keep that high performer on.

[00:21:58.900] - Amanda
Absolutely. And not only that. Let's be very clear she was specifically named in exit interviews as this person is the reason I'm leaving.

[00:22:07.660] - Gene
I got I asked details because I was curious about this and there were some expletives that were discussed about how she showed up. There was also the fact that she lied to to get work and she would work extra hours on the weekend to cover this up. This toxic superstar is seducing in the sense that they are performing at a higher level than others but it is at the cost of the culture. You as the leader or a manager has to really make some hard decisions because. It is hurting your employee retention.

[00:22:40.900] - Amanda
Absolutely. And just think about the team or the people in her environment. I mean they are constantly thinking about I've got to get another job. I've got to get out of here because you know this is not an environment that they want to spend eight hours a day and plus. Every single day.

[00:22:59.830] - Gene
So these are the five types of employees that are hurting your employee retention. We went through this. We want to have fun with you because you probably got some of these in your workspace right now.

[00:23:10.760] - Amanda

[00:23:11.460] - Gene
And I want you to think about this. You. Sit down maybe make a jot a few names down you know where do they fit in this. And are they really hurting the employee experience overall. And are they truly costing people to lead the company.

[00:23:26.410] - Amanda
Absolutely. And I think that when you're really honest about this and you really start thinking about the different people that would fall into these five categories. It might scare you a little bit. Honestly.

[00:23:40.770] - Gene
So you may be thinking about what do you do with all this because this is not our traditional episode where we're interviewing people and this is not your traditional episode where we're giving you the step by step because what we wanted to let you know this we've created through a partnership a training about employee retention and it really is something I'm really proud of. It comes along with the stay framework that we've mentioned that stay framework will help you be a better leader tomorrow. You can literally Download it today and use it in your next conversation and you will see impact right away.

[00:24:13.630] - Amanda
Absolutely, this is something that we have put together through trial and error over the years working with. Our own company working with other companies and really seeing what are these managers and leaders that are the highest performers that have melded together a team that is just trucking along and is just super efficient and really seems to just go at it every single day. What are they doing so what are some of their best practices. So we have pulled them together and let me tell you some of these are ridiculously easy. And it is shocking to me every single day when I see leaders and managers not doing this and then yet they're also complaining I can't keep my people.

[00:24:58.180] - Amanda
Well here is the answer and it is super easy. The Stay framework can be downloaded at

[00:25:06.190] - Gene
Well that wraps up this episode really excited to be able to share this work with you to come together with my beautiful wife. I really have a lot of respect for what she's done in the corporate world and really wanted to share something with you because I feel like you could be the leaders that you really wanted to be by understanding these types of employees. But more by getting that stay framework so make sure you go ahead do that.

[00:25:29.350] - Amanda
Absolutely. And of course join us for the free training that we will be doing along with that and we'll be including our partners velocity global. So thank you again for joining us. And we will see you in the next episode.

[00:25:41.250] - Gene
As always lead with courage.

[00:25:43.510] - Amanda
Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of The Next Generation rock stars where we have discussed all about recruiting and retaining that next generation of talent. So I'm guessing that you probably learned a tremendous amount from this week's rock star leader. And if that is the case don't keep me a secret. Share this episode with the world but really share it with your friends with your colleagues because they also need to learn how to recruit and retain this next generation of talent because these skills are crucial to business success moving forward.

[00:26:24.470] - Amanda
Now of course I want you to keep up to date every single week as we are dropping each and every episode. So be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice and you will see the next generation rock stars show up just for you.

Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.

NextGen Featuring Ralph Barsi

Ralph Barsi, Round II: Mentoring for Impact

Mentoring is one of the most effective ways to teach and guide young employees. But what does it really take to be a great mentor? I asked Ralph Barsi, who mentors some of our very own Rockstar guests.

Ralph Barsi is the VP, Global Inside Sales at Ralph Barsi leads the worldwide sales development organization at ServiceNow. Ralph regularly speaks and writes about sales and leadership and is recognized among the top inside sales leaders in the technology industry. He publishes most of his material at

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Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.

The Transcript - Round II: Mentoring for Impact

Welcome to the Next Generation Rockstars podcast. If you are trying to figure out how do you recruit and retain this next generation of rock star talent or you are in the right place.

Amanda Hammett: 00:14
Hey there everybody. My name is Amanda Hammett and today on the next generation rock stars we have round two with Ralph Barsi. Now if you have been following us, you know that Ralph was on a couple of weeks ago and he shared with us just all kinds of knowledge bombs so you need to go back and check that episode out if you missed it. But today we have Ralph Barsi back from service now. Rob, welcome to the show.

Ralph Barsi: 00:38
Thanks, Amanda. It's great to be back. Thanks for having me again. I appreciate it.

Amanda Hammett: 00:41
No worries. Well, I will tell you, Ralph, you are the only person who has been invited back for a ride.

Ralph Barsi: 00:48
Okay, that's awesome.

Amanda Hammett: 00:53
So there was snow there. The whole reason I originally reached out to you was to talk about mentoring because I know a couple of people that you mentor, but we had so much to talk about the last time. We didn't even get to it. So we had to do around two.

Ralph Barsi: 01:08
Here we are. You're right. We had a good conversation last time. So I would encourage any of the viewers today. Go back and take a look at our first conversation before you continue on with this one and a, you know, you'll see how we're picking up where we left off. I'm glad we can talk about mentoring and mentorship. It's an important craft and it's, it's something that I think more people need to take advantage of on both sides, both the mentors and the mentees. So I'm looking forward to getting into it.

Amanda Hammett: 01:33
Awesome. So let's start at a basic level. So how do you define mentoring for yourself?

Ralph Barsi: 01:42
To be a mentor. Well, let's start first an on the mentee side, you know, someone who is a mentee looking for a mentor, someone who wants to level up, they want to improve, uh, in their profession and their craft in life. And they are vulnerable enough to ask for a guide or a coach or a teacher or someone who could shed light and share insights based on their experiences to maybe shine the spotlight in places that the mentees not considering or even thinking about. And so it's a combination of that teacher coach guide in my definition that kind of rolls into what a real mentor is.

Amanda Hammett: 02:28
That's a great, great definition. I love that you started out with the leveling up, but also the teacher-coach guide. I mean I think that word guide I think is really key.

Ralph Barsi: 02:39
Absolutely. You know, it's a, there's a great zen saying, I think it's a zen proverb. You know, when the pupil is ready, the master appears. Yes. And it's the exact same law that states seek and you shall find. So if you really want to level up and you to start finding a guide or teacher or mentor to kind of walk the path with you, they won't appear until you start looking for them. So you have to decide first on your own that you're committed to finding that person or those people and you'll be amazed how they surface, they will show up, the universe will conspire to put them in your path. So it's a super optimistic, positive thing to think about if you really want to go that route.

Amanda Hammett: 03:30
I love it. Yes, you're absolutely correct. Now, I would assume that you have had over the years, some pretty amazing mentors that have really modeled this for you.

Ralph Barsi: 03:43
I have a personally and professionally, I've had mentors that I didn't even ask to have as mentors, people who've just kind of noticed that I was looking to improve in certain areas and they were able to offer some wisdom and knowledge. And I'm pretty open and transparent and candid anyway. So I can always get better on my listening skills and I can always get better on how I hear and accept and apply the feedback that has been super tough for me throughout life and still is. But I think I've improved quite a bit over the last several years. And just hearing people's feedback of me and about me and how I can, you know, turn the dial in certain spots to just be a better person.

Amanda Hammett: 04:36
I think that we could all use that feedback and sometimes it is, it's tough to take and it hurts a little bit.

Ralph Barsi: 04:43
Totally. And a lot of people will say feedback is a gift and, you know, sure. Thank you. I appreciate the gift, but I don't like the gift all the time.

Amanda Hammett: 04:56
You're right. I've had those moments where people feel me, but it's a get back like,

Ralph Barsi: 05:01
oh yeah, it's things a little bit. But so, you know, let's talk about mentoring and let's, let's talk about it, whether it's personal, professional, and maybe you can share too with the audience, you know, tell us about your mentors and your experience with mentoring.

Amanda Hammett: 05:16
Absolutely. You know, it's funny that you mentioned a little while ago that, you know, what was it, the proper, basically when the pupil is ready, the teacher will appear. And that really resonated with me because that has been the case for me, especially the past five, 10 years of my career where I felt like I was in this area and I felt like I had something extra to give, but I didn't, there wasn't really a defined place for me. And so I was really reaching and trying to find that place. How do I start this place? And I was searching and searching and she did, she appeared and she has been a pioneer in her own field. And, and she was like, this is, she really helps me wrap my head around it and it's been a beautiful learning and teaching experience for me. And now I'm just really fortunate that I, you know, she's come to me recently and said, I am so proud of what you have been able to accomplish. And to me, that is like it, you know, the best. Yes, I could have gotten because she's recognized like how, how hard I've had to work to get to where I am.

Ralph Barsi: 06:30
Yeah. It means the world, you know, especially to mentors really care. They really care about you moving the needle in your own life and when you can illustrate that progress and then, you know, you've got the gratitude and the awareness of how far you've come. That just, that means the world to mentors. And that's what it's all about. And it's not uncommon, Amanda, what you mentioned, how, you know, you're just, you're trying to wrap your head around it. You know, you need some help in some areas, but you're not quite sure how to get started. What's step one is et cetera. So many people feel that way. So what's really important for those listening and watching who are just contemplating whether or not they want to take that leap and kind of get into a mentorship relationship, write it out, you know, you, I mean, just spill it all out onto paper and you know, use the concept of beginning with the end in mind.

Ralph Barsi: 07:25
What, what short, mid and long term outcomes are even important to you. And you and I started to talk about this in our last talk, you know, kind of do a thorough self-assessment and identify what those short, mid and long term goals are. And also identify how you define what's short, mid and long term means it means something different to all of us. And I would highly recommend, again, spilling it all out, really writing it all out, what's bothering you, what challenges you're encountering over and over again, what patterns you've identified and what you want to fix. And then boil it down to the essentials so that when you do have those initial conversations with your mentor, it's concise, it's simplified, it's a clear path to where you're trying to get and that's going to help them help you have. So yeah. Otherwise, you're going to experience what both you and I have experienced. You're like, um hmm. I think I need help. I'm just not quite sure where and what. Well, hey, if I were a mentor listening to that, I don't even know where to start either. So, yeah, help me, help you that it's that simple.

Amanda Hammett: 08:39
Absolutely. And you know, one thing that I would add to those, those short, mid and long term goals and really be looking at yourself where you are is being honest with yourself, with where you are. Because it is very easy in today's world to really start to compare. It's like, oh no, you know, I can do this well. And it's like, well, can I, you know, is it world-class or is it, I can get by.

Ralph Barsi: 09:06
What will come from that? Those types of questions and assessments are, you know, perhaps you create smart goals, you know, what are what's the acronym again? Help me. I think it's simple. It's measured. It's actionable. A reasonable or realistic and timely. Yeah. So if you think about those categories when you're writing down your goals and you really you know, make it easy for the two of you to measure your progress, that's a huge step that you could take. Perhaps it becomes a plan on a page. A lot of businesses do this. We do it all over service now. For example, we have a plan on a page with what are top three to five initiatives are and kind of what rolls into accomplishing those initiatives and perhaps one page on yourself and your assessments and your goals is really gonna help the two of you get the conversation started and that's where your mentor can really weigh in and help you kind of tailor it or, you know, frame it up in a more proper way for the two of you to move forward on.

Amanda Hammett: 10:13
I agree. So let me ask you this, and you've kind of touched on this a little bit. Um, but what really as a mentor, what is your role? What is your role?

Ralph Barsi: 10:28
Wow. What a good question. What a broad answer I can give you for that. The way I see it number one, I'm here to listen. I'm here to listen. And ultimately what I'm to do is help you connect the dots to get to where you want to go. Oh yes. You know, and if I see some obstacles that are on your path, I have to help mitigate the obstacles or make the obstacles appear smaller than they are. Because you're so focused on producing high-quality work, moving forward. You have an intensity level of focus. You have a set time that you are going to invest in working towards your goals. And I help you get there. Ultimately the best mentors ask questions, they ask questions so that you, Amanda can arrive at the answer yourself. We don't parachute in and go, hey, look, thanks so much for the smart goals.

Ralph Barsi: 11:32
Here's what you're going to want to do for A, B, C, and d. Instead. We'll ask them, well, why is that an important goal of yours? And if you were to stack rank these top three goals, what would be the first one you'd really want to accomplish versus the last one and why? you know what w w how can you visualize yourself having already accomplished these goals? What type of person would you be like how would you be talking to me if those goals were already accomplished? Who would you pay this forward to? Who would you go help knowing what you don't know yet?

Amanda Hammett: 12:06

Ralph Barsi: 12:07
So that's how I see a mentor. That's what mentors do. That's the best mentors do.

Amanda Hammett: 12:11
All right. I would agree with you. I would agree with you. Yeah. And I, you know, another thing that my mentors have done for me is they have challenged my thinking and you know, sometimes there have been times where I've been thinking maybe too small and this one mentor, in particular, she was just like, yeah, you can totally do that. But, and I always knew when she said that I knew like she's about to give me a mental buck kicking. And I knew it was, it wasn't, she really pushed me to be uncomfortable in a lot of ways. And it was, it was a wonderful gift because now I live a lot of my business life in a state of Semyon comfort and that's okay. I've gotten really comfortable with it.

Ralph Barsi: 12:57
Well, that discomfort equals growth is on its way. And, uh, if I were your mentor, for example, I'd want to make sure I kept you accountable on what you said you were going to do. Yeah. And just kept your focus on it. There may be instances where you bring up areas that you're trying to improve in and I might know people in my network that are gonna do a way better job of kind of teasing out the best in you than I would in those areas. So I would broker introductions and make sure that you're, you know, expanding your network and adding value to it at the same time. As we've talked about before, the more value you add, the more valuable you become in the process. And it's just really important to add value even in the smallest of increments.

Amanda Hammett: 13:46
Absolutely. So what I've been seeing a lot lately are companies who have been coming to me to either help them create or tweak or completely revamp an internal mentoring program. And it's always really interesting to see that dynamic within a company. I assume that Sarah's, now, you've kind of alluded to one earlier, I assume that you guys have one. So what do you think is the benefit to a company to have an internal mentoring program?

Ralph Barsi: 14:16
Sure. A great question and yeah, we'll just focus on professional for a minute. Okay. So I read a study recently, now, I read it recently, but the study is probably two years old. And it said that 71% of the fortune 500 companies have formal mentoring programs. So that's a good thing. That's a good thing in that over, you know, two-thirds of them are, are believing in this. And it also means that just through simple Google search, you could start to find the frameworks that these fortune 500 companies are using to drive their mentoring programs. And you can, you know, take pieces or parts of it and create your own mentoring program in your own company. You don't have to be a fortune 500 company to, you know, to drive it. So I have seen it not only in service now, but in the other companies, I've worked with, not only at the macro level where the company offers a program but at the micro-level where, for example, the development of my sale organization, we too have our own mentorship program within the company.

Ralph Barsi: 15:21
The benefits are boundless really. I mean, number one, you've got employees who are engaged. They are, they, they feel like they're in a place where they're celebrated, not tolerated. They feel like their accomplishments are being recognized at the very least by their mentors, right. They feel like it's a place that they can grow and thrive. So, you know, from a company's pulse standpoint, you've got killer retention rates. Yes. And you've got killer promotion rates because you have employees who believe in themselves and are actively working to improve their game. So they're staying in their companies, they're being promoted within their companies, and then ultimately they're paying forward the great experiences they've had with mentors to help others grow in their own. Right. So, I mean, and that's just a couple benefits. It just goes on and on. But I can't emphasize enough the importance of having one in your company or starting one. If there isn't one, maybe that's a sign that you need to I'm light a fire or under yourself and get that mentorship program started. Be that be the one carrying the torch.

Amanda Hammett: 16:35
Absolutely. Well you know, and, and something else is really interesting. I there are some studies out there that actually suggest that not only does the mentee really benefit but the mentor themselves actually benefits and when there is a solid mentorship program in place, actually the mentee is 84% more likely to stay with the company.

Ralph Barsi: 17:00
Yup. I believe that.

Amanda Hammett: 17:01
I'm sorry the mentor is 86% yup. No, I mean the mentor. So the person actually you know, helping and guiding and teaching and coaching, they tend to stick around for those types of things. And that is, that is something that is a beautiful thing that companies are always coming to me like, oh you know, we have this whole between 27 and like 47 how do we fill it? I'm like, let them to let them guide. Let them go actually.

Ralph Barsi: 17:28
Right. There's a great, yeah, there's a great business leader and thought leader out there. His name is Rameet Satie.

Amanda Hammett: 17:35
Oh yes, yes. I follow him.

Ralph Barsi: 17:37
So he's the author of the book. I will teach you to be rich. So his background really stems from finance, personal finance. Anyway, Remeet has written a ton of great content material on mentorship programs. And there's one article I wrote down and the title is why successful people don't want to mentor you. So I suggest you look that one up and read the details behind it. And then another great article he wrote was met my mentor Jay Abraham, who's a marketing master and learn how to find your own mentor. So I would recommend people searching for those two and maybe in show notes, Amanda, we can include links to those articles, but it really offers great tactical advice on how to approach mentors for the first time, how to ask for their time. Another great concept I think about is Simon Sinek golden circle. You know, Willard, the Bullseye is why and then how, and then what, those are some questions you should be asking yourself before approaching a mentor. And if you are a mentor, being approached by a potential mentee, have them answer those questions. Why are you coming to me? How are we going to do this? How's it gonna work? And then what is it going to entail? And I think it's just a great, a beginning, middle end to think about for both parties to really establish a solid long-lasting relationship.

Amanda Hammett: 19:06
Absolutely. So, you know, I would imagine that you know, you're the type of guy that's probably approached to be a mentor a whole lot. And how do you decide who, you can't take them all on it, you just can't? And so is it really when they come to you and they've already got this kind of outline or is it, do you take on the cases where they're just spinning in their head? Or how do you make that decision?

Ralph Barsi: 19:33
It's more the former than the latter. If someone comes to me and they are personal, they are specific and they at least offer a skeleton of what it is they're trying to uh, get out of this relationship. I will absolutely take it into consideration. You also have to think about, we're all crazy busy, so if I can serve and accommodate them through my schedule, then I will absolutely. Even if it's an initial phone call and we decide together that, you know, you might want to talk to Amanda, I'm going to connect you with her. She might be somebody who's going to have the bandwidth and is also going to have the expertise and experience in these specific areas since you called them out. It can probably be a better help than I can. In fact, that recently happened. Somebody reached out to me on Linkedin, asking if I'd consider mentoring them and they're based in Germany.

Ralph Barsi: 20:31
And time zones alone are going to be tough. And then you talk about language barriers and just you don't want things lost in translation. So because they provided some specifics on, you know, what x to y means to them. I've put them in touch with some my leaders and colleagues in Frankfurt and in Munich because I already know that these leaders can bring so much value to the table for this individual and there in Germany. It's just a lot more effective for that person than I could be living in the San Francisco Bay area. So those are two examples. I, you know, the best mentors and even the best mentees are very resourceful mentees are ones that really do their due diligence to find out why do I want to contact Amanda or why do I want to contact Ralph? And in turn, we need to do our due diligence to see, well, what is this person's linkedin profile look like?

Ralph Barsi: 21:28
If I Google this person's name, what will I learn about this person? Some of them, you know, I'll learn nothing. I'll hear crickets chirping because they've done nothing in the marketplace or in their community to add value. And that might be a very good first topic for our first talk, right? You know, hey, you're trying to build your brand. Well, I'm, it's very hard to learn about you. And what it is you bring to the table. Let's start there. And that's usually a pretty good, good talk long answer your question. But those are some components that I consider someones to approach me.

Amanda Hammett: 22:00
Absolutely. Well, I, you know, as I've told you before, I happen to be familiar with a couple of people that you've mentor two people, Nicolette Mullinex and Morgan Jay Ingram, they are both rock stars in their own right.

Ralph Barsi: 22:15
Yes, they are.

Amanda Hammett: 22:16
And Nicolette actually was the one who initially was like, you know, you might want to speak with Ralph. And she told me she'd walked me through how she really approached you because she does not work with you nor Norris Morgan. And it was really in, she seemed to have a very systematic approach to how she, I don't know how it came across to you, but how she went about approaching you to be her mentor and me, you know, she's killing it. So I think she's doing okay.

Ralph Barsi: 22:46
Yes. She and Morgan are both killing it and we'll continue to, they've got that Moxie. Yeah. And they've also got that fire in them that just wants to be better all the time. They hold themselves to very high standards, higher than I can hold them too, or you can hold them to, and there's a lot of their there when you've got a potential mentee who's just got that fire burning. And if you don't help them, they will go find someone else who will. And you just gotta love that. And yeah, Nicolette and Morgan are both rock stars to use your words and there's just, there's no question they're going to continue to be very successful in their career. And what I love is both of them will continue to help others as well. They'll give back and, uh, they'll, they'll impact lives along the way, which is really what it's all about.

Amanda Hammett: 23:34
Absolutely. I mean, Nicoletta's is running a fairly substantial team these days and Morgan has a quite the linkedin following Ricky calves you know, and tricks on, on being a sales rep and, you know, it's, he's just, I'm always amazed at the stuff that he puts out and just the way he looks at things and just his positivity on it just on a day to day basis.

Ralph Barsi: 23:57
Yeah. It's infectious. Yeah. That enthusiasm is infectious. And, you know, as you said, I mean, both Morgan and Nicolette are, they're placing more souls every single day into the community. And those more souls are there to help others. And not everybody will gravitate towards some of those nuggets. A lot of people will and those who do and actually apply what they're learning from, from those too, we'll do a lot of good in the world and that just warms my heart.

Amanda Hammett: 24:29
Absolutely. So will you actually kind of segue into my next question. What really is the benefit for you to become a mentor? How does that benefit you besides warming your heart?

Ralph Barsi: 24:44
Wow, that's a tough question. We're getting a little personal here, which I don't mind, but I have believed for a very long time that that's why I'm here. This is the this is my vocation. You know some people in the professional world see me as a sales development leader. Okay, great. If that's the channel or the vehicle that I'm going to use to impact people in a very positive way, then so be it. But I do feel like that's, that's why I'm on this planet is really to serve others and to lead by example and illustrate what servant leadership really is. Everyone's got their opinions on it. Some people aren't fans of it. Some people think it's a lot of fluff and I'm okay with that. I actually respect everybody's opinion. We all have different experiences and insights and we come from different places in the world.

Ralph Barsi: 25:37
That's okay. As long as you are using your unique strengths and gifts to, uh, make the world a better place, that's, that's really why we're here anyway. So, I dunno if it's, you know, the process of leaving behind a legacy. If I think globally act locally, I'm going to start thinking about my three boys and being a, a great leader by example for them so that they can grow up to be men for others. That's, I'm fine with just that, but if it positively impacts others in the ripple effect, then that's even better. But I hate to break it to you Amanda, but yeah, it's because it just warms my heart.

Amanda Hammett: 26:16
No, and that's, that's perfectly okay. But I mean, you really are, you know, leaving a legacy. You really are creating that, that ripple that will go out. You know, the Morgans of the world, the Nicolette's of the world are, they're taking your teachings and they're spreading that, you know, with their own spin and their own take on it. But they're spreading it and they're touching other people's lives. And I think that you're, you know, not to say you can hang it up, but mission accomplished, like doing that. You're accomplishing your goal with, you know, with what you set out to do in this world. So

Ralph Barsi: 26:48
Thanks, Amanda. I appreciate that about the bed. Candidly, you know, I'm not really the source, I'm simply replicating goodness I've seen from others along my career path and in my life that, you know, just so many different people I've just taken examples from and said, yeah, that's, that's the way to do it. That's the way to rule. And so that's great to hear. And yeah, I want to make sure Nicolette and Morgan see this and I want to make sure that people who don't know who they look them up and even reach out to them and tell them, you know, thank them for the impact that they're making.

Amanda Hammett: 27:22
Absolutely. Yeah. And they both, they both are. And I, cool. I'm Morgan on the show last season. I'm going to have Nicolette on a show next season, so absolutely there people will be hearing from them for sure from this platform. But you know, I want our, you know, wrap this up with just this, you said in the last episode that we did together that players want to play with other a players. The way that I see it is that you are a player because you are not only great at your job, but you're great at developing others to be great at their job, whatever that means to them, whatever that success long term, short term means to them, you're great at it. And we see that in Nicolette, we see that in Morgan and there are others out there just like that. So I, for one like to say thank you. But I would just encourage you to keep on doing what you're doing. I know that you will or you don't have to hear that from me, but thank you. Thank you so much for me and from the world as a whole.

Ralph Barsi: 28:24
Thank you, Amanda. I appreciate that very much.

Amanda Hammett: 28:27
Well, wonderful. Well, thank you guys for being with us and thank Ralph for the impact and the ripple effect that he is having across the world and changing lives every single day. And thank you guys for joining us and we will see you in the very next episode.

Amanda Hammett: 28:42
Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Next Generation Rockstars, where we have discussed all recruiting and retaining that next generation of talent. So I'm guessing that you probably learned a tremendous amount from this week's rock star leader, and if that is the case, don't keep me a secret, share this episode with the world, but really share it with your friends, with your colleagues, because they also need to learn how to recruit and retain this next generation of talent because these skills are crucial to business success moving forward. Now, of course, I want you to keep up to date every single week as we are dropping each and every episode. So be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice, and you will see the Next Generation Rockstars show up just for you.

Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.

NextGen Featuring Malin Ohlsson

Malin Ohlsson: How Empathy & Understanding Can Change an Employee’s Productivity

When employees are not living up to the expectations you had for them in their role, most companies simply let them go and begin looking to refill the role. But what if you could do something as a leader to turn that employee's performance around? Learn from Malin Ohlsson on how she helped an employee go from being fired to award winning.

Malin Ohlsson is the Operations Manager at IT Garden (Sweden). IT Gården was founded in 1999 and has worked with operations, hosting and cloud solutions since its inception. Their vision is Stressless IT where we deliver the latest technology at a fixed price per user per month. We have over 100 employees, 8 own data centers, Swedish local support and take a great deal of environmental responsibility.

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Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.

The Transcript - How Empathy & Understanding Can Change an Employee's Prodcutivity

Welcome to the Next Generation Rockstars podcast. If you are trying to figure out how do you recruit and retain this next generation of rock star talent or you are in the right place.

Amanda Hammett: 00:14
Hi, this is Amanda Hammett and this is Next Generation Rockstars. And today I have a fantastic guest for you. She is joining us from Sweden. Her name is Malin Ohlsson. Malin, welcome to the show.

Malin Ohlsson: 00:26
Thank you for that introduction. I'm working at this small company in South Sweden.

Amanda Hammett: 00:33
Okay. All right.

Malin Ohlsson: 00:35
About 100 employees? And well operation manager during the next six months. I'm also HR. That's a good thing to work in a small company. You can do whatever you want to and a bit more. Yeah.

Amanda Hammett: 00:56
So how did you get the six months of being HR? How did that come about?

Malin Ohlsson: 01:03
Oh, HR manager on the panty leave.

Amanda Hammett: 01:06
Oh, okay.

Malin Ohlsson: 01:06
In fact, I have done it already for six months and we'll do it for another six months.

Amanda Hammett: 01:12
Oh, okay. Well, fantastic. That must be nice to have that lengthy parental leave and in Sweden.

Malin Ohlsson: 01:20
Yeah. It's a very nice benefit. It's all good.

Amanda Hammett: 01:24
Wonderful. I'm a little jealous of that. So. All right, well let's dive in. You've already told us a little bit about you, but what the audience doesn't know is that you know, I'm not a frequent visitor to Sweden. So I actually met you through someone else. I had the good fortune of speaking at a conference, in Europe and severe Spain. And I spoke with a young man who was just a real go-getter and he really impressed me. And his name is Marcus Backstrom. And as I was speaking with Marcus, I asked him, you know, I'm really curious as to who was influential and you're in your career, who has really helped to drive you to where you are today? And that person was you.

Malin Ohlsson: 02:12
That's a great mention because I've only known him for, I think I met him the first time for a year ago. On the training I h M business school. And then he seems, interesting person. He had some challenges around, uh, the most things about the staff. And I think the thing was, I don't hope he mind by that they don't ask the staff, the colleagues what I think, what they want, what they wanted to do if there was satisfied because they don't want to have the answer.

Amanda Hammett: 02:54
Absolutely. And sometimes it's hard to hear the answers from your staff on what they want or what they think.

Malin Ohlsson: 03:01

Amanda Hammett: 03:01
That can be difficult. But it's so important because you can't fix it if you don't.

Malin Ohlsson: 03:06
Yeah. And the only thing that will happen if you don't fix it is that they will leave. They may not the ones that should be okay. The only company, but the high performing. Yes. People, they will leave. Because they can have another job.

Amanda Hammett: 03:26

Malin Ohlsson: 03:30
So we'll see. That's miss slows now are amazing. He took it from a hard result. No results, both on employee satisfaction and customer satisfaction. He has done a great job.

Amanda Hammett: 03:45
That's wonderful. That means he did the work, he listened to you and he did the work.

Malin Ohlsson: 03:49
You have done lots of work. Yes. So let's talk a little bit about you for just a second. You told us a little bit about what you're doing right now. But I would imagine that in your own career, throughout your entire career, you've witnessed other forms of leadership that are different than your own. How did that, how did those styles of leadership shape who you became as a leader?

Malin Ohlsson: 04:20
I think I have seen both do the less good examples, but what shaped me the most is one of the first managers I had in my first leadership role a long time ago. But what he told me, and it's not due to translated to English, but he told me that always lead according to for these, if I should translate it in, it's like, we always want to be nice to each other. Which decision I ever might take. I always hope to play on my colleagues best. I want to have a nice life in the company or outside the company. And he showed me how you can show concern and hot, but was careful that I was responsible for my development and created my own conditions. You can do that for me. And he was really obvious about that.

Amanda Hammett: 05:23
Oh, that's wonderful. I mean, I think that a lot of leaders sometimes forget that. You know, you're not just, it's not just about producing numbers, it's really about producing the next generation of leaders. It's really about building them up. And sometimes that involves hard lessons to learn, but it's there. It's about treating people. That's what, that's how people want to be treated. That's wonderful. Yeah. So have you ever, I mean, besides this one boss that you just mentioned, have you ever felt pressure from other bosses or superiors in your companies to focus more on numbers and less on being kind to people?

Malin Ohlsson: 06:08
Yes, absolutely. And sometimes I feel less pressure. Even now then we are a company that delivers competency of assessing, which means that we have to recruit people with high skills. Yes, I calmed down. So in this company, I haven't been here for 15 years. Where all this had a focus on employee satisfaction, well, the last maybe four or five years, realize that employee satisfaction is the figure. And since three years ago, this is one of our main goals. We have three main goals for the company and employee satisfaction is one of them. So it's not, it's not only money but had to work hard to prove it at that it will be a difference if we focus on people. And the Swedish cones.

Amanda Hammett: 07:10
Yes, Yeah. I agree with that wholeheartedly actually. So within my own company, we, my other, my other partner, uh, he focuses on studying high performing companies and teams. And the biggest finding that has come out of that research is that they put employees first employees over the customer. And that's the most important thing. Actually 94.1% of all the companies he has the high performing companies that he has, surveyed and you know, research, they have all put employees first.

Malin Ohlsson: 07:49
Can I please get part of that thing?

Amanda Hammett: 07:52
Yes. I'd be happy. I'd be happy to share that research with you. Yeah, that's really good stuff. I mean, there's a lot of other good findings, but that's the one that always out in my head is, I mean because that's not even close. That's a huge number.

Malin Ohlsson: 08:06
Yeah, it is. And I think the, my generation and younger, I think you have a bigger capability to take that information with us and do something with it. I think that the ones, the older generation has a little bit more to struggle with and calling that

Amanda Hammett: 08:29
Well, you know, it's, it's always about changing and, and going, you know, accepting that change is coming whether you want it to or not, it's coming.

Malin Ohlsson: 08:39
So, let's see.

Amanda Hammett: 08:41
So, all right, well since you brought this up, let's, let's dig into this. What is the difference or what is the influence that millennials have brought into a company culture specifically? You know, I know that you guys work through Europe, not just in Sweden.

Malin Ohlsson: 09:00
That's true. I think if I should take it in some of it. So a greater focus on personal development together with work-life balance. I think that's the pressure that they put Sonos as leaders. Yes. This younger generation is a, they're smarter than my generation because they have a much bigger focus on work-life balance. And on the self self-development that's the thing. Accept anything else. So it has changed us a bit from our annual employee surveys and annual goal meetings. Now we do it every month. They have an interview with all employees and we do our surveys every week with want, but every week. Yes. Because feedback, no, don't live very long for this. These guys who, who've grown up now because they used instant feedback.

Amanda Hammett: 10:12
Absolutely. I agree with that completely. And it's interesting how if you're having an issue with just one, it could be something very minor, but if you, if it's not addressed and I fairly, you know, quick manner, it can fester and it can grow and it can spread and it can not only take over the one employee, but it can start to spread to others. Yes. Yes. It's very toxic. And so it's like one bad apple ruins the whole bunch.

Malin Ohlsson: 10:44
Yeah. It's will like that.

Amanda Hammett: 10:47
So yeah, I love that you guys do that once a week. I think that so many companies depend on that one time a year annual survey. And I'm like, that's just not enough.

Malin Ohlsson: 10:58
No, it isn't. We do once a year. A bigger survey.

Amanda Hammett: 11:01

Malin Ohlsson: 11:03
Not a lot of questions, but every week we have a question. Yes. How do you feel this week? What was your week? And you have to click four, a four smileys too happy and too sad. And when you click them, your nearest leader get an email. Yes. Sad. He has to get you a hug something...

Amanda Hammett: 11:29
Does he have to give you a hug?

Malin Ohlsson: 11:30

Amanda Hammett: 11:32
I love it. Okay.

Malin Ohlsson: 11:36
He wants a cup of coffee.

Amanda Hammett: 11:41
All right. Okay. That's awesome. I love that. I love that. And that's just through an app on your phone, right?

Malin Ohlsson: 11:48

Amanda Hammett: 11:48
Ah, that's great. So as soon as millennials started coming into the workplace, how did that change your own personal leadership style or did it.

Malin Ohlsson: 12:02
I don't know if it changed me so much. It's hard to see, but I find it easier now to open the show, show more heart. I don't think for 10 years ago I should never ever wrote and male for one of my colleagues that they have to give another colleague a hug. I do. It's exactly what it says. I like when things happen fast and quickly and this generation can handle that better than the older generation. In my point of view. They can have the information. So I don't really know how it changed me. Okay. I have to, I have to be a more instant wait as it could for 10 years ago. It's not possible anymore.

Amanda Hammett: 13:02
I see. Yes, you're right. You're correct on that. Now, what about, I happen to know that you are a very big believer in accountability and you know, can you give the, can you give the audience an example of what that really means to you?

Malin Ohlsson: 13:22
I think I have civil examples. We'll see. I believe that that old people want to be the best self and perform well. That's why I had to challenge my colleagues and me all the time. For example, I have a colleague who one role and it didn't work out really well. We almost agreed about that's her and employment should end. But when I realized what she really said between the lines, I realized that she loved people, not it. So, I also taught to be one of our team leaders a couple of days after we had a conversation about ending her employee comment. It's a bit strange, but today she's one of the all-stars.

Amanda Hammett: 14:29

Malin Ohlsson: 14:30
She, yeah, she is. She had an award from a service desk. Fuel means Sweden and we'll go in the middle of May to Stockholm B. Yeah. An audience about why she was the year support employed. Yeah. She will. She's one of my best, but I listened to her when she spoke to me. I listened to what she said, not between the lines. And that was my mistake. I'm glad that I had had the opportunity to think over it.

Amanda Hammett: 15:17
Right. That's awesome. That is amazing that you know what a turnaround because she was about to leave your company. Yes. And I'm sure, you know, it was, it was upsetting for her and for you, but you recognize that there was something else there that you were, you were missing. And so congratulations to you for, you know, recognizing, but also for taking that risk because a lot of people would not have taken that risk. But congratulations to her. I mean, that's amazing.

Malin Ohlsson: 15:49
That's all. That's my id. All the responsibility. Well, she got an opportunity and she took it. She has done. So I like that.

Amanda Hammett:16:00
I love that. I love that. That's all the please pass along my congratulations.

Malin Ohlsson: 16:07
That's why I love my work.

Amanda Hammett: 16:09
That's amazing. That is great. That is great. And again, I want to recognize that you, you recognize that and you acted on it. A lot of times we see leaders that, you know, they see, okay, somebody is struggling and maybe they, this isn't the place for them, but that's where the thought process ends. They don't think about where else, what other seats do we have that need to be filled that this person has skills for. So wonderful. That's awesome. I just took a couple of months. That's okay.

Amanda Hammett: 16:45
That's okay. All right. So tell me about, um, do you think that I mean, this question almost a no brainer at this point, do you think that your leadership style and your, you know, belief in, you know, accountability for everybody, do you think that that really helps you retain talent?

Malin Ohlsson: 17:05
Yeah, I think, I think so. Yeah. No, I'm convinced about that. I am, they're too lower the garden. I really care about my colleagues. So I think that's one of the thing and I have the courage to asked the unpleasant questions and to listen to answers and do what it takes. So, yes. Thanks. So

Amanda Hammett: 17:30
Very good. That must be what Marcus learned from you.

Malin Ohlsson: 17:35
I will ask him.

Amanda Hammett: 17:41
Well, obviously, I mean, listening to those answers and what's not being said has actually given you an edge to retain top talent and retention of talent is such a massive issue for company role, but it's also a very expensive issue for companies around. Yeah. Yes. That's very good, I love this. So what I'm, you know, mailing, what do you find are the benefits of really focusing on your people and developing your people? What benefits to accompany are there.

Malin Ohlsson: 18:14
Company perspective? It stays longer and I don't know about, um, your country, but here it's, it's very easy to get a new job if you're a good technician. So we were called for ghetto stay and develop to be the best ones. So I think that's the main reason. And we have customer satisfaction that's really high.

Amanda Hammett: 18:46
Yes, absolutely. Well, if you take care of your employees, they will take care of your customers. Absolutely. Yeah. And you are a testament to that as well apparently.

Malin Ohlsson: 18:58
Yeah, I know. It's like that now our board or comments too. So in that way, in the same direction.

Amanda Hammett: 19:08
That's good. Very good. Now what about I, you know, we've talked a little bit about your influence on Marcus, the young man that I met. But what other advice would you give to an early career employee? Somebody who's just starting out, maybe their very first job. What advice would you give them?

Malin Ohlsson: 19:29
Okay. It's a bit hard, I think, believe in yourself and make mistakes. I think that making mistakes is a good, good way of growth. I think if you take responsibility for a mistake, it's a good thing.

Amanda Hammett: 19:49
Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Next Generation Rockstars, where we have discussed all about recruiting and retaining that next generation of talent. So I'm guessing that you probably learned a tremendous amount from this week's rock star leader, and if that is the case, don't keep me a secret, share this episode with the world, but really share it with your friends, with your colleagues, because they also need to learn how to recruit and retain this next generation of talent because these skills are crucial to business success moving forward. Now, of course, I want you to keep up to date every single week as we are dropping each and every episode. So be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice, and you will see the Next Generation Rockstars show up just for you.

Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.

NextGen Rockstars with Matt Schuyler

Matt Schuyler: Leading 5 Generations in the Workplace

How do you manage over 405,000 employees worldwide that represent 5 generations in the workplace? According to Matt Schuyler, CHRO of Hilton, you do it by developing leaders who understand and can bring out the best of everyone, regardless of generation.

Matt Schuyler is Chief Human Resources Officer of Hilton, one of the largest and fastest-growing hospitality companies in the world, with more than 5,500 hotels, resorts and timeshare properties comprising more than 875,000 rooms in 107 countries and territories, serviced by over 410,000 Team Members. Under his leadership, Hilton has been recognized for its exceptional workplace culture, earning the highest honor on the 2019 Fortune Best Companies to Work For® in the U.S. list. In addition, Hilton has been recognized as a World’s Best Workplace and a Great Place to Work in 18 countries.

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Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.

The Transcript - Leading 5 Generations in the Workplace

Welcome to the Next generation Rock Stars Podcast. If you are trying to figure out how do you recruit and retain this next generation of rock star talent or you are in the right place.

Amanda Hammett: 00:56
Normally I do my all my interviews via zoom, but we had the opportunity to sit down when I was invited to be a part of the guest's media at the great place to work for 2019 where Hilton hotels were honored as the number one greatest place to work for 2019. So Matt and I had a wonderful conversation about the recruiting and developing, but also about the differences between the five generations that we have in the workplace today. And what does that mean for leadership? How does leadership have to evolve? And really just, you know, what, what do we need to do in order to, to make each and every generation at work happy and productive? So listen in on what Matt has to share with you because he has got some great nuggets to share. Enjoy.

Amanda Hammett: 01:51
All right, so this is Amanda Hammett and I am the host of the next generation rock stars. And I am here today with Matt Schuyler, who is the CHRO of Hilton hotels. Welcome to the show, Matt.

Matt Schuyler: 02:02
Great to be here. Thanks for having me.

Amanda Hammett: 02:04
So, Matt, you have a tremendous honor, and this is actually why I'm sitting down with you because Hilton is the number one greatest place to work in 2019. Is that correct?

Matt Schuyler: 02:14
We are pleased to be ranked and humbled to be ranked number one best company to work for in the US by a great place to work and fortune this cycle.

Amanda Hammett: 02:21
That's amazing. So you and I had a couple of conversations earlier about what I study and that is millennials and Gen z and the whole next generation of talent. So tell us a little bit about what you guys have at Hilton as far as your makeup of generations.

Matt Schuyler: 02:37
Yeah, we are just, right now, passing the 50% mark with respect to millennials in our workforce globally, we have over 405,000 team members under Hilton flags around the world. We track, of course, the demographics associated with that workforce just passing 50% certain parts of the world, though we're well above 50%. In fact, Asia is a great example where we're, 80% millennial in our workforce serving our guests in our Asia Pacific region.

Amanda Hammett: 03:05
That's amazing. So one of the things that I'm really interested in is how this rising generation of millennials has affected the way you recruit and the way that you retain your employees

Matt Schuyler: 03:17
Deeply. In many ways. the way we recruit, the way we engage, the way we retain, the way we motivate and teach have all changed, I think as a result of this generation called millennial who have entered the workplace with technology as a backdrop, high expectations with respect to the impact that they'll make it, the workplace as well as the work they do and with a high demand to learn and grow in their careers, uh, as part of the workforce. So that's, in many ways driven, our programs and initiatives over the past, I'd say four or five years as we start to leverage technology that they've become accustomed to using to help them learn, grow, develop as we've created jobs that we think will be compelling for them for the long run. And as we've worked to engage them in more meaningful ways, in a broader purpose, that we provide to society as a whole and our local communities where we do business.

Amanda Hammett: 04:20
That's amazing. And I know that they really appreciate that. Now let's talk a little bit about retaining them because a lot of what I hear from companies is that millennials are job hoppers. But how do you see that and how have you combated that?

Matt Schuyler: 04:32
Yeah, I understand the sentiment and certainly, I think it's born out of what I mentioned, which is a, there's a deep desire in this generation to Kenny's. You learn, grow, develop, and limited patients. We all live in now the age of service in a moment. And so if I want something this afternoon, I can get it this afternoon. That's different than previous generations. Uh, and so when you lift and shift that to the workplace, if they, this generation of worker, the millennial doesn't see a line of sight to the next opportunity, they will certainly be vocal about it first and foremost. If nothing comes of that vocality they'll choose to leave or move onto something else. Yeah. They will seek out leaders who will help them grow their careers and more meaningful and potentially fast-paced ways. It's not, extreme when you think about it in light of what's happening societally where the world is just moving faster. We have access to so much more information now and so do they internally. I have often said that it used to be that leadership traded on the currency of tenure and that's just not the case any longer because anything, I know technically you can look up in an instant using your mobile device. And so we now believe that leadership must trade on the currency of connecting dots and help to enable the workforce to achieve its objectives and goals. And this resonates with the millennial population. We believe.

Amanda Hammett: 05:55
That was wonderful in the wrapped up very nicely. The question that I was going to ask about how are you helping your leaders to really leverage those millennials?

Matt Schuyler: 06:04
We are just being open and authentic about the fact that for the first time ever, there are five generations in the workplace. Each of those generations has bespoke expectations. But the core underlying tenant of each of those generations interestingly is the same. They want to may have meaningful work. They want to contribute, they want to learn, they want to grow, they want to develop, they want to have some fun. The difference that we see with the millennial generation is just, it's an accelerated expectation set relative to those same goals. They expected faster. They're not willing to wait years and years and years, sometimes decades to achieve those goals. We don't find this to be a bad thing. We think it's helping us sharpen our instrumentation. Yep. And we think it's making us a better employer, which is helping the entire workforce. So this isn't something that we're doing just for millennials. The work that we're doing now to accommodate the new expectations we see in the millennial generation is helping the entire workforce.

Amanda Hammett: 07:00
That is amazing. And every millennial and Gen z is probably going to hear this and a lineup and want to come work at Hilton.

Matt Schuyler: 07:06
We would love that are welcome. We welcome all and we've got great jobs, so we'll look forward to that.

Amanda Hammett: 07:11
Oh, wonderful. Matt, thank you so much for your time. You are amazing and congratulations on your big accomplishment with great places to work.

Matt Schuyler: 07:18
Thanks for the opportunity to share about it. Appreciate it.

Amanda Hammett: 07:21
Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the next generation Rockstars, where we have discussed all about recruiting and retaining that next generation of talent. So I'm guessing that you probably learned a tremendous amount from this week's rock star leader, and if that is the case, don't keep me a secret, share this episode with the world, but really share it with your friends, with your colleagues, because they also need to learn how to recruit and retain this next generation of talent because these skills are crucial to business success moving forward. Now, of course, I want you to keep up to date every single week as we are dropping each and every episode. So be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice, and you will see the next generation rock stars show up just for you.

Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.